Metering, what's gone wrong?

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Paul Dunning
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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by Paul Dunning » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:46 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

dave_whatever wrote:
Paul Dunning wrote:Problem with film, seems unlikely but I'll try shooting some new in-date film alongside the expired (08/2011) stuff which I've been using.
I'd be amazed if the film was the problem unless its been stored in an over or something. I've shot slide film over a decade old, uncertain storage, with no noticeable change in film speed. 2011 is practically brand new!
Hi Dave,

That was my thinking as well although I don't have the experience of shooting old film so wasn't certain, also the film was shipped from the US from a seller who said it had been cold-stored, I'm sure he was being honest but I'd started having a few (probably unfounded) doubts.

Paul.

Martin Jan Köhler
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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by Martin Jan Köhler » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:47 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Paul Dunning wrote: Sticky or inaccurate shutters, also I would think unlikely but I guess I should try and test this somehow, 1 second sounds like 1 second.
Hi Paul,

you can use Audacity and a Microphone and simply record the shutter sound.
That way you can measure the duration between the shutter spikes...

Best regards,
Martin

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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by Charles Twist » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:59 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Hello Paul,

Just to be clear: the Epson scanner doesn't darken the pic, but it struggles to render dark areas. And 1.5 stops under on V50 is about as dark as you would want to scan. Beyond that, you get all manner of noise.

It's a great result, if you are achieving systematic errors. That's a doddle to adjust for. It's when you're all over the place that nailing a remedy is difficult.

The aperture label: I have a shutter with the label out of place. So, wide open, the pointer indicates f/8 when in fact it's a f/5.6 shutter. It's a simple translation - I just need to remember to adjust the pointer or the metering by one stop.

Good on you for keeping the faith. Best regards,
Charles

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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by jennym » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:20 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Hi Paul,

You might want to try using a couple of different spotmeters. I found metering much easier when I switched to a Pentax digital spotmeter - for me it was just so simple to use! But I suspect there is an element of what is right for one person is not right for another. I'm happy to lend you mine if you would like to try it.
Cheers,

Jenny

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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by Paul Mitchell » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:26 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I concur with Jenny regarding the Pentax Spotmeter. Also, as opposed to my old Sekonic 508, I can meter a scene without taking my eye away from the viewfinder which is invaluable especially when the light levels keep changing. I've also just recently bought the tiny, very portable Gossen Digisix for ambient readings so I have the best of both worlds.
When people ask what equipment I use - I tell them my eyes.

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Baxter
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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by Baxter » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:18 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

You might just need to calibrate your lightmeter and give it some compensation using ISO. When I bought a Pentax digital spotmeter I found that it gave 2/3 stop more light to the scene than my Sekonic 508. This accounted for why I'd been having most of my Sekonic metered E6 pushed about 2/3 stop. All that's needed is to set your own adjusted ISO for that meter. A sticker on the meter or in the camera bag will remind you if you use lots of different film types. It is so easy to be drawn into the 1/10 stop which the Sekonic gives on the LCD. When investigating spotmeter behaviour, I also failed to determine which type of 'Average' is used when in multispot mode. It will make a difference to the skew.

Ages ago, I remember doing a quick test on a workshop of different spotmeters. They all read differently. Most consistent were the Pentax, but so long as you know how your meter relates to the film base ISO that's all that matters. It's also far cheaper! However spotmeters do differ significantly in terms of ergonomics and there will be one that feels more intuitive. Workshops/meets are the best way of doing this, unless you've got a dealer nearby.
Baxter

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Glenn Haworth
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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by Glenn Haworth » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:06 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

It has been a very interest thread and given me food for thought.

Paul, I have a Pentax spotmeter if you want to compare it to your lightmeter.

Clive Gray
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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by Clive Gray » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:40 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I used to just take a stab at what the mid-tone should be
If that worked why not stick with it ? I don't mean that in a sarcastic way.

I have three prefered methods of metering myself.

1, look for a nice fluffy white cloud meter off it and give +1.5 stops.

Thats a widely used rule of thumb for slide film I was trying to find where I had originally found that suggestion and could not find the original link but found the following thread on large format info a good read http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ ... sparencies

2, Take a stab at a mid tone reading in the abscence of the aformentioned white cloud, I usually go for a likely looking bit of tree bark say or a path.

3, And now for the heresy, wave your DSLR at it and extrapolate from what looks good on it if its a bit of a complex scence with no easy choice of midtone.

I know some members of this forum have a low regard for method three perhaps particularilly as Ken Rockwell recomends it.

There is an interesting disscusion I found on this to on Large Format info http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ ... ith-a-DSLR

As one often does I found Frank Petronio's comments entertaining but maybe thats just me.

By the way I don't have a spot meter but I spot meter in the most accurate way possible. http://www.johndesq.com/pinhole/booster.htm

I have a twisted sense of humour so I find this funny

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscrip ... ystem.html

Their more sensible take on the zone system

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscrip ... 0zone.html

Paul Dunning
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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by Paul Dunning » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:26 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Clive Gray wrote:
I used to just take a stab at what the mid-tone should be
If that worked why not stick with it ?
Hi Clive,

It worked some of the time, depending on how well I stabbed :) I'm on a quest to get consistently usable exposures which is why I'm trying alternatives.

Paul.

Paul Dunning
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Re: Metering, what's gone wrong?

Post by Paul Dunning » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:48 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Thanks everyone, lots to mull over from this thread.

Regarding meters, hopefully I can compare readings with those of you going to the Ilse of Purbeck meet in March.

One question regarding meter accuracy...

If I meter a scene and use the reading to expose on my DLSR (I know) and it gives a good exposure, then wouldn't the same readings give a good exposure on film, (although highlights and shadows will fall differently because of differences in latitude, the metered mid-tone should be comparable) ? EV is EV no matter what the medium, correct?

On a happy note, got some nice exposures at the weekend but consistency still needs improving, so their is hope for me yet :D

Thanks,
Paul.

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