Tripod Head question for 10x8

A place to talk about cameras, lenses, tripods, etc. and how to use them
Post Reply
Dave Tolcher

Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Dave Tolcher » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:46 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

My tripod & head arrangements are going to be challenged with the 10x8 I have bought. Reason appears to be that I have only 1/4in threads and arca style plates that cantilever on the 10x8 base. Looks like the best option would be to find the correct Plaubel head (of which there is one at a silly price on Ebay Germany) or possibly a Linhof or Sinar. Just looking for basic pan and tilt with a screw thread rather than QR. Is this a sound hypothesis ? Suggestions ? The camera is a Profia 10x8 and monorail base is approx same size as the Sinar and round.

Andrew Plume
Forum Hero
Posts: 617
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 3:28 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00
Location: North Oxon

Re: Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Andrew Plume » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:15 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Dave

Alex Falk, aka mr cad is the man for this, no question - he's bound to have something suitable in stock

regards

andrew

Dave Tolcher

Re: Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Dave Tolcher » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:31 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Thanks Andrew, I have just returned some completely mislabelled bellows so woth a conversation.

Andrew Plume
Forum Hero
Posts: 617
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 3:28 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00
Location: North Oxon

Re: Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Andrew Plume » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:43 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

thanks Dave

Dave Tolcher

Re: Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Dave Tolcher » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:46 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Would a old fashioned Gitzo Rationelle No 4 do the job ?

Andrew Plume
Forum Hero
Posts: 617
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 3:28 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00
Location: North Oxon

Re: Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Andrew Plume » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:52 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I'm not au fait with that one Dave, sorry

regards

andrew

Emmanuel Bigler
Forum Hero
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:47 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
Location: Besançon, France

Re: Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Emmanuel Bigler » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:16 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Hello from across the Channel!

In the good old days, Gitzo pan-tilt heads or 3-way heads were named 'rationnelle', probably because French consider themselves as the grand-grandsons of René Descartes, the inventor of cartesian coordinates, the most rational means to find where you are in space ... ; :mrgreen:
Not kidding, a No4 or No5 Gitzo pan-tilt head will probably do the job.
No4 heads have been discontinued for a long time, but there is still one No 5 available on the catalogue, the reference is 1570M for the "low-profile" one.
http://www.gitzo.com/low-profile-three-way-head
I have the smaller model No3 = 1370, discontinued, and too small for a 10x8" camera but this is the same device actually, slightly reduced weight & size.
A guy on our French large format forum, classifieds section, is desperately trying to sell a No 1570M Gitzo head for about 100 euro.
http://www.galerie-photo.info/forumgp/read.php?7,171108

With a No5 Gitzo pan-tilt head you can't go wrong, it can support about 10 kg and older models can be repaired if necessary. The large supporting plate covered with cork is a pleasure to use, and you should use the big (screw+nut) accessory to firmly attach you camera on the supporting plate, prefer the 3/8 model, the bigger one ref. D2271.15
http://www.gitzo.com/3-8-screw
This is actually the best way to attach something if you do not want to use a quick-release plate. The screw is gently screwed by hand throught the head's supporting plate, until it stops inside the camera's socket. Then you screw the large nut from underneath and firmly press the camera's base against the large supporting plate. No risk to damage the camera's thread or camera"s base plate or whatever.

An alternative to the Gitzo No5 3-way head would be of course a large-size ballhead.
I have an Arca Swiss B2 which offers separate tilt movements in both directions. It looks like a big ballhead but you actually have 2 separate, independant, tilting movements that you lock with a single knob. The B2 and its successor the Z2 offer separate friction control and progressive braking when the tilt angle increases, a unique feature of Arca Swiss ballheads.
With a monorail camera, you can easily balance the weight in order to have the centre of mass above the ballhead, so a good ballhead is a good as a good 3-way head to support a 10x8" camera ; but many users find themselves more comfortable with the 'rationnelle' head and its large handles that you operate with boths hands.
The principle of 3-way heads with separate movements has a direct mechanical consequence, the maximum supported load cannot exceed about 10-15 kg, which is already very strong. But a ballhead like the B2 can support ... well, probably 50 kg or more, the tripod will collapse before the head eventually suffers :aww:

Dave Tolcher

Re: Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Dave Tolcher » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:54 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Emanuel, thank you for the comprehensive answer. I agree with what you say although I have an Arca B1 and the problem I see is that it has 1/4in thread and with an adapter doesnt feel very stable. I am trying 2 options at the moment. I borrowed a Sinar clone from Clive Gray which is pretty much excellent - the sinar head would be very good I think - as it has the round head which clamps prefectly to the rail clamp. Also I have a 1570M which I am evaluating - seems to be my favourite at the moment for all the reasons you outline and is easier to manipulate than the Sinar like head.

Best regards

Dave

Emmanuel Bigler
Forum Hero
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:47 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
Location: Besançon, France

Re: Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Emmanuel Bigler » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:00 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Dave
The problem is actually that nobody can reasonably screw a large and heavy camerea on a fixed screw, or a screw which can be rotated only by rotating the ball in the ballhead ..
Believe me or not, but I've seen students attaching a 5x4" Sinar norma by rotating/screwing the WHOLE camera on top of a fixed screw !! Those guys were not reasonable ;-)
Hence if you go for the Gitzo 1570, you should get the Gitzo accessory screw in 3/8" size. Actually I have both Gitzo screws, the 3/8" and 1/4", since Murphy's law states that when you need the 1/4, you only have the 3/8 handy and vice-versa.

On my 1370, I have attached an Arca Swiss clamp, the classical one, and I attach my 4x5" camera with a corresponding quick-release plate. This is much more convenient than screwing from underneath. But you do what you feel convenient. Simply take a long classical dovetail plate from Arca Swiss or any reliable manufacturer, it will easily support your 10x8" camera. On my B2 I have a long classical lamp for classical dovetails, something capable of holding 50 kg upside-down ;-)

Dave Tolcher

Re: Tripod Head question for 10x8

Post by Dave Tolcher » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:13 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Emmanuel Bigler wrote:Dave
The problem is actually that nobody can reasonably screw a large and heavy camerea on a fixed screw, or a screw which can be rotated only by rotating the ball in the ballhead ..
Believe me or not, but I've seen students attaching a 5x4" Sinar norma by rotating/screwing the WHOLE camera on top of a fixed screw !! Those guys were not reasonable ;-)
Hence if you go for the Gitzo 1570, you should get the Gitzo accessory screw in 3/8" size. Actually I have both Gitzo screws, the 3/8" and 1/4", since Murphy's law states that when you need the 1/4, you only have the 3/8 handy and vice-versa.

On my 1370, I have attached an Arca Swiss clamp, the classical one, and I attach my 4x5" camera with a corresponding quick-release plate. This is much more convenient than screwing from underneath. But you do what you feel convenient. Simply take a long classical dovetail plate from Arca Swiss or any reliable manufacturer, it will easily support your 10x8" camera. On my B2 I have a long classical lamp for classical dovetails, something capable of holding 50 kg upside-down ;-)
Believe me or not, but I've seen students attaching a 5x4" Sinar norma by rotating/screwing the WHOLE camera on top of a fixed screw !!
Glad you werent around when i tried it earlier in the week with a 10x8..... :roll: & :lol:

4x5 is easy - easpecially with the Arca as the folding rail clamps directly in the quickset head on the D4 or B1 and its as solid as a rock. The 10x8, the weakness was the clamp between the QR plate and the monorail clamp (which has identical footprint to the Sinar). As you have an Arca you should get a quickset clamp, esp if you have a folding rail as it changes the centre of gravity and stability hugely (to say nothing of not having to carry the rail clamp).

Fortunately the 1570M came with both screws and as you say its a very easy system to put the camera on once you find the hole to put it in. It is rock solid too.

Post Reply