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Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:35 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by George Hart
Moderators, may I suggest that given that it's unlikely that anything constructive will follow further posting, you close this thread?

George

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:01 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by DJ
David Rees wrote:I have followed this thread carefully, and it is clear that the majority view does not agree with Ian.

Despite multiple requests, Ian has not provided us with a vision of how this board can be improved in any significant way. His posts have not been constructive, and I can understand why the moderators are becoming annoyed.

However, where I take issue is with the suggestion that he should be banned from the forum. I respectfully submit to the moderators that Ian is entitled to feel that the board is not run how he would wish it to be, and to hold to that view. In his posts within this thread, he has said nothing that in my view warrants a ban.
David, be assured that nobody wishes to ban anyone, it has never happened before, and it really would be the very last resort, and one we have bent over backwards to avoid.
David Rees wrote:If, after all the efforts by the moderators to explain, Ian still holds to his original view, then all is not lost; clearly the majority agree with the moderators, and everyone has had a chance to give this matter some thought. But there seems to be a trend in recent comments that Ian should be baned unless he recants from his earlier view; that strikes me as inequitable. Yes, his position is irritating, and clearly wrong from the perspective of the majority. But unless insults are flying beyond this thread, what has he done to warrant a ban?
I don't believe Ian has been requested to recant his views, merely his hostility. We have openly pointed out that we have listened to his opinion which he is entitled to, but that not everybody shares it. Regrettably Ian seems to be either unwilling or incapable of accepting this.

Any suggestion of banning Ian, which is something we hope to avoid, is only as a result of his continued hostile behaviour, not his opinions.

If Ian had suggestions, any merit they might have would now be lost in the overly aggressive and critical manner in which they are delivered. Being civil costs nothing.
David Rees wrote:But I'd like to respectfully submit to the moderators that the best thing they can do now is withdraw from posting further in this thread, given that Ian is clearly unable to make any useful suggestions. His position is silly, and his posts have made that crystal-clear. Despite this, you have done everything you can to address his points anyway. No-one could ask you for more. Simply let this thread wither away, and hope he comes around in time. But please don't ban him for disagreeing with you!
Ian, nor anybody else would ever be banned for disagreeing with anyone, rest assured this will never happen. However the Moderators do have a duty to safeguard the sanctity of this community, and if there are persons who cannot conduct themselves in a mature and civil manner, address other members with respect and courtesy, we may be forced, once the Olive tree runs out of branches, to act in the best interests of the community. The ball has been firmly placed in Ian's court now. The choice is his to make. We hope he decides to stay.

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:18 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by mpirie
Re: DJ's post above, It's good to see that common sense prevails and that opinions of all colours are welcome.

I value Ian's contribution to this (and other) sites where his knowledge of alternative processes would be sorely missed if the ultimate forum sanction were applied.

Please lets all calm down, take a deep breath and move on......there's nothing to see here! :roll:

Ian - please stay, moderators - please take Ian's comments in a constructive manner and for everyone else....lets get out there burn some film ! (not literally of course!) :lol: before the looooong nights creep in!

Mike

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:18 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by IanG
PAUL O wrote:Ian why don't you simply start your own LF group? You can then manage it to your heart's content. For the sanity of the group I would suggest you take this path as you clearly do not fit into the mindset of the majority and certainly the founding ethos of this group.
If you decide otherwise I would support that you be banned from posting as you are turning this forum into a farce.
Get real.

All many of us want is some improvements here, and your attitude like one or two others is just unhelpful and unrealistic. It's the lack of interest in listening to serious comments that's the farce.

There has to be a more serious discussion about the issues raised, away from this thread, I sent JC a PM but she's not bothered to reply.

I'd add (for David Rees) that I've made constructive proposals but many have been lost in deleted threads, there's been quite a few a few lately. It's also worth noting that there's a VERY silent majority that rarely post and as I've said before you need to ask why. They do post on other Forums but something holds them back here.

I'd add that if it appears that there's hostility in approach it's a result of PM's sent to some of us which I won't quote in this or any other thread. But it relates to the boards reluctance to change anything.

Sure it would be easy to set up another UK based LF Forum, in fact I have much of the content etc already, and two forums that could be used very quickly.

But I think Paul that DJ has a better grasp, I and others would rather stay here and play an active role as contributors than have a petty battle of competing UK Large Format Forums

Ian

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:58 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by IanG
mpirie wrote:Re: DJ's post above, It's good to see that common sense prevails and that opinions of all colours are welcome.

I value Ian's contribution to this (and other) sites where his knowledge of alternative processes would be sorely missed if the ultimate forum sanction were applied.

Please lets all calm down, take a deep breath and move on......there's nothing to see here! :roll:

Ian - please stay, moderators - please take Ian's comments in a constructive manner and for everyone else....lets get out there burn some film ! (not literally of course!) :lol: before the looooong nights creep in!

Mike
I'm here to stay Mike.

Just have to fight my corner to get some improvements in the website. I've asked before who really runs the site and didn't get a decent answer.

I've met up with enough members here to realise that the concerns three of us have raised repeatedly are actually shared by many others (well all that I've spoken to),that's why I keep badgering the mods/admins.

I did start a new thread on this with all the improvements that would help the site go forward but it was deleted for no reason.

Ian

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:16 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by David Rees
Ian,

I suggest you post your constructive ideas in this thread--after all, it would be "on topic", it's active, and clearly people are reading it, so your thoughts will reach their intended audience. The moderators have repeatedly asked you to do this, but so far, you have not done so. I doubt any such posts, submitted on this thread, would be deleted.

You clearly feel very strongly about all this; it would be wonderful if your passion to improve the site could lead to something other than acrimony. So when you do post your detailed suggestions for improvement, please do try to present your ideas in a way that is as non-confrontational as you can; you are more likely to garner support that way. And do try to remember that we are all large-fromat photographers, we have much in common, and creating dissension within our ranks is doing our hobby a serious disservice--something I'm sure you want to avoid.

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:51 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by joolsb
OK. Enough is enough. Positions are getting entrenched and nobody seems willing to compromise. Either we end up with an unresolved stalemate or those doing the complaining realise that perhaps a less confrontational approach might be of benefit. I'm sure Joanna and the team are prepared to listen to well-tempered and reasoned views coupled with positive suggestions for improvement.

Or is confrontation the point? Stirring up trouble for the sake of it? Given the unwillingness to put forward positive suggestions, I'm tending to the view that this might be the case...
I'd add (for David Rees) that I've made constructive proposals but many have been lost in deleted threads
Perhaps you wouldn't mind repeating them, then?

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:31 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by PAUL O
This is getting absolutely ridiculous?
Ian, on the one hand you are slating the moderators/set up of this website and yet in the next breath you appear determined to remain as part of the forum for the good of the group? You appear to have a "saviour mentality" whereby you perceive that we all need salvation form the current set-up and you provide the answer.

You repeatedly make claims about your positive contributions to this forum yet EVERY request for you to provide proof of this goes unanswered by you? Strange?

If you have the facilities, resources and content for your own site then what on earth is stopping you from amkiing the leap?? I am sure that all of your "supporters" will leave this forum in their droves to support your site?

You still seem to be very argumentative and simply won't accept the decisions of moderators - because they don't give you the answer you want to hear?

I would seriously question the contribution you have made to this forum? You are turning it into a circus. Either accept the decisions by the moderators ... there is no desire to change the UKLFPG Webiste or shut up.

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:36 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by IanG
"there is no desire to change the UKLFPG Webiste"

Not sure you're right at all. It's been mentioned already that this website will change, the non Furum part will be cleaned up, it's 4 years out of date.

The website has changed in many ways since it's founding people have come and gone and the site's membership is no longer just the founding Clique.

What can be done to improve the site:

1 Increase the bandwidth and webspace, allow images to be uploaded direct to the website, not everyone wants or will use Image hosting websites. This may already be possible if/when the hostings changes.

2 Clean up the front end (non Forum) part of the site (already in hand)

3 Broaden the regional coverage - already started with the appointment of new moderators

4 Clean up abuse of the Classifieds section (some moderators are aware of what I'm referring to).

5 Clean up the Moderating and allow freer discussion of contensious issues. There have been quite a few deletions lately. The appointment of the nw moderators may well help here.

6 A better Resources section outside the Forum, perhaps with articles etc.


So Paul, since this thread started there has been a very definite desire to change and improve this website made by some of the founders and admin for the benefit of all members.

In the last 5 years this forum has grown, it's improved in leaps and bounds as it's moved away from it's early roots, there's now a far more diverse membership from across the whole of the UK, and also in terms of photographic practice.

Sometimes it's necessary to shake the tree, see what happewns. This site does need new blood to keep it evolving for the future and that's now happening.

Ian

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:53 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by David Rees
Ian,

This seems like a reasonably constructive list of suggestions to me, though that does not mean I agree with them.

I think one or two of them have been addressed already by the moderators in this thread, but I imagine there will be some response from them again.

It seems from your last post that changes are already happening to the site that you agree with. It may well be that more changes will occur in response to this thread. I would urge you not to get too concerned if not everything happens as you would wish, or in the timescale you hope. Better to let matters rest for a while now, if only to allow everyone time for reflection.

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:20 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by Charles Twist
IanG wrote:Thank you.

I notice you're playing with the red highlighing of posts as well, it's an issue that's been neglected it's trivial but just needs clearing up. All notifications of Posts and PM's currently go to my Spam and so get deleteted, I ignore PM's unless they are relevant.

On a more positive note has the site moved hosts, is there greater bandwith and disk space to allow uploading images direct, and hosting of articles etc. Finally is the very outdated Front end being revamped.

Ian
Hello Ian,

Yes we have muted the colours somewhat - I thought we'd told you (might have been in a PM which got spammed). For host moving, you'll have to wait for DJ and Marc to answer. Don't expect any changes with regards to uploading images to the forum - we just don't and won't have the facilities to host that many images.

However, when it comes to hosting articles, that is something we are looking to integrate in to the non-forum part. I sent you a PM recently (which your server probably spammed) asking you what you were proposing to share so that we had an idea of size: how many pages, how many images, how many megabytes. This is done on a volunteer basis and the day jobs must take precedence, therefore there'll also be the matter of how many of hours. If you could outline your resources and summarise the above info, that would help us greatly. Equally, if anybody else has material which they deem would suit the non-forum part, could you please get in touch?

By Front End, I presume you mean the non-forum part. I'll be putting some thought in to that today as I have cleared a few hours to work on it. We're all agreed it's not brilliant, but again we're limited by time and what skills we have in-house. Now if somebody out there knows a thing or two about web design and wants to help, please step forward. Thank you.

Best regards,
Charles

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:17 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by IanG
Two weeks to reply ?

That's the heart of the problems with this site.

Ian

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:46 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by vanman
Ian,
They have to work a lot of hours to buy the latest Ebony model that does nothing more than my 1927 Ansco or your pre war Agfa Ansco, not to mention the latest Schneider products. You must realise that these things are deemed to be necessary to produce good negatives to scan. Time to reply to other posters is at a real premium.
Vanman.

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:10 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by Charles Twist
As the owner of both a Ansco-era Kodak half-plate and a Sinar F2 (no Ebonies here), I have to say the older camera is a PITA. Now if you don't mind, I'll return to finishing my project with the old camera - because it has proven such a PITA that I haven't had the time to work on the forum. :lol:
Regards,
Charles

Re: The way this Board is run

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:56 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00
by vanman
Hi Charles,
Are you cutting film to half plate size or have you a secret source of half plate film. I've got the holders but no film, I prefer 5x7 but half plate at the right price would be nice.
Vanman.