Scanning 10x8 on V700. Alignment issues and Newton Rings?

[Marizu]

I've been scanning some 10x8 C41 negs using my V700 into Photoshop CS4 and I am having a couple of issues.
Firstly, the area that is shown in the preview scan is not the area that is actually scanned.
It seems to be shuffled over a bit to one side and the film rebate from one side sometimes shows on the other like it's wrapped around!
Also I am having issues with newton rings.
I am using a better scanning ANR 10x8 glass and it does help but this is driving me crazy.
Do I need to wet mount my films to reduce the issue?
Do I need to seal the scanner bed/glass in some way if I'm wet mounting?
Can anyone suggest a good way to reduce the newton rings using Photoshop?
Fortunately, most of the rings appear to be occuring towards the edges of the film where I don't have much in focus.

Thank you,
Marizu

[ajmiller]

Hi Marizu, I don't think you can wet mount on a V700, afaik it's the V750 only that does that.
Are you using a film holder or the negatives straight on the glass with the AN glass on top of the negs? I experimented with my V700 doing it this way and did have problems with newton rings.
The issue with the preview and scanned area been different sounds like a config. problem on either size of negs or the holder. Are you using the 'Film ( with film area guide)' setting?
May be worth contacting Doug Fisher at Betterscanning - he's a helpful,fella!

hope you sort it out.

Tony

[dave_whatever]

You can wet mount on the V700 if you've got one of the Doug mounting stations. Are you definitely using the ANR side of the glass not the smooth side for dry mounting?

[Marizu]

Here’s an update on my experiment fluid mounting 10x8 film to the V700 scanner bed.
I didn’t actually get back to Doug on this issue but I did look up my previous email correspondence with him, though.
Before selling me the ANR glass, he did explain that it reduces the incidence of newton rings rather than removing them in all circumstances. This is because there are two planes that  contribute to the rings:
1.       Between the scanner glass and the film
2.       Between the film and the ANR (or other flattening glass)
Obviously, there is no ANR surface on the scanner bed so the ANR glass only assists with the latter, although the weight of the glass indirectly assists with the former.
I picked up a Kami fluid mounting kit. It is sold for the V750 using the fluid mount station/holder. V750’s distributed in the UK and my V700 have no holder. People have been critical of the Epson fluid mount holder because it forces the scanner to scan through 3mm of glass.
Fluid mounting on the scanner bed is risky because the bed isn’t sealed against fluid ingress.
 
I attempted to seal the edges of the scanner bed with Kami scanner tape, then I applied fluid to the bed and placed the neg on the fluid.
I put more fluid on top of the neg and put a sheet of the optical mylar on top. Air bubbles had to be worked out to the sides with a cloth.
The film area guide was then placed on top before scanning.
The first time I did this, I think I used too much fluid but I actually got a better result than when I subsequently used less fluid.
If you can work the bubbles out, this scanning method works well but I got anxious about the amount of fluid so I probably won’t be doing this again unless it is a particularly difficult negative. Most of my negs scan well without fluid, but I think that some of them may have a degree of curl at the edges which is where I am most likely to see the newton rings. Working the bubbles out on the scanner bed is difficult because it is dark and difficult to see what is going on.

The issue with the scanned area differing from the preview was fixed with a driver update.

[Kintokoba]

Hi Marizu, would you be able to explain the cleaning of the fluid after scanning please? I've been using my 750 for the first time and have not been impressed, fluid mounting might be the answer.

[Marizu]

My post is ONLY applicable to some specific challenges related to 10x8 film scanning. Mainly Newton Rings.
It is a lot easier to get good scans from 5x4 film, but you need to understand how to work the Epson Software as it makes a number of poor default choices for you.
I don't recommend going the fluid route. You can damage your scanner if you don't seal it properly. Even the Kami scanning tape shows some degree of fluid ingress. It's also a PITA because you can't see the bubbles easily so you will probably need several attempts which potentially introduce their own bubbles. I cleaned up the scanning fluid with kitchen wipes.
I think that the best thing to do for 10x8 film is to tape the film to the scanner bed pulling it tight with the tape and putting some of Doug's ANR glass over the top. I put the film emulsion side down hoping that the roughness of the emulsion will have some kind of ANR benefit against the flatbed glass and the ANR glass should cope with the film.
You still need to understand the software settings. I did Joanna's Photoshop for Large Format Photographers course for this.

It would be worth mentioning what kind of film you are trying to scan (brand/type) and what is actually wrong with the scans as that will help people to help you.

[Kintokoba]

My biggest issue is one of sharpness, I am using the supplied holder for 5 x 4 for B & W. I plan to shoot some 10 x 8 in the next fortnight. I've not invested in the better scanning holders because I bought a Wista Rosewood and I'm borderline broke
I was hoping to get away with just buying a sheet of ANR glass but am interested in fluid mounting if the results merit the effort and expense.

[Marizu]

Flatbed scans are always soft. They will always need some degree of sharpening in Photoshop. On this Epson stuff, don't scan more than 2400dpi because you won't get more detail but the image will just look softer.
I recently acquired a 10x8 Wista so I know the feeling

[Joanna Carter]

I am using the supplied holder for 5 x 4 for B & W.

Well, that is one sure possible cause of softness. The problem is that the 5x4 scanning is based on the holder being higher than the glass but the 10x8 holder is simply a guide, placed on the glass. If I remember rightly, the cutout in the back edge of the holder tells the software which holder is being used and swiches the focus. However, the Epson-supplied 5x4 holder is rarely on the plane of focus, which is why so many people tend to go for the Better Scanning holder to get the height adjustment.

[Kintokoba]

Thanks for the advice and my apologies for veering slightly off topic in terms of specificity. I've been shaped by economical moderators on other forums in the past to 'save vital bandwidth' by not starting a glut of new threads.

[Joanna Carter]

I've been shaped by economical moderators on other forums in the past to 'save vital bandwidth' by not starting a glut of new threads.

No problem. We don't yet get the volume of posts to worry about such things

[DJ]

Well, that is one sure possible cause of softness. The problem is that the 5x4 scanning is based on the holder being higher than the glass but the 10x8 holder is simply a guide, placed on the glass. If I remember rightly, the cutout in the back edge of the holder tells the software which holder is being used and swiches the focus. However, the Epson-supplied 5x4 holder is rarely on the plane of focus, which is why so many people tend to go for the Better Scanning holder to get the height adjustment.

The V700 and V750 have two lenses, one focused for the flatbed and another focused above it for the film holders, and neither one especially accurate as we've all discovered. When you scan an 8x10 on the flatbed glass and select "Film Area Guide" in the software, it uses the flatbed lens and not the "film" lens. The cutout at the back of the holder is the calibration area, when the scanner starts scanning each time it does a little auto-calibration in that area.

Regrettably these scanners do not have the ability to change or adjust their focus, otherwise there would be no need for the Better Scanning back and we'd all be getting lovely sharp scans with the supplied holder