B&W Processing Advice for newbie developer

[dave_whatever]

I think this is down to the bloody magnet falling off the drive halfway through the process and my having to do the 10 wash cycles by hand. I've glued it back in place now.

I'm glad I'm not the only person this has happened to, only with me it was E6.

If you want to cover your chems in open cylinders for a few days try putting clingfilm over the top.

[DJ]

I use a water stop and give it 2 mins, and at least 5 mins for Fotospeed fixer at 9:1 (with an Orbital, continuous hand rotation) - maybe you need longer with the stop to kill development?

The Ilford PDF doc said 10 seconds with the stop, but the bottle says 30 seconds. I left it in for a minute because I was fiddling with the funnel to get it back into the graduate... it's bright yellow, so I thought that may be the cause of the slight warm tint to the neg.

Another thing I wondered about is which speed to put the thing on, my CPE/2 has two speeds, I set it speed 1 as other seemed a bit violent..

I've heard about pre-soaking as well, the Jobo manual that comes with the reel and tank says pre-soak B&W film for 5 mins... but the Ilford document doesn't say anything about it, so I didn't do this, is this something you all do?

[DJ]

This may not be long enough in the fixer, we tend to use between 4 and 5 minutes. This could be the reason for the slightly cloudy appearance. Just dunk them in the fixer again, even if they have dried, then give them a really good wash for at least half an hour under running water.

Well the 3 minutes given in the Ilford doc wasn't "adjusted" to compensate for the continuous agitation like the developer was, so I expected it to be enough. I presume it won't hurt to leave the fixer in for longer, you can't over-fix or anything can you?

Which reels are you using?

2509N (with the baffles). I've seen a line along the edge where the film was inside the rail where the development is different from the rest, but not on all the sheets ( I did 6 sheets this run ). Would using speed 2 on the CPE/2 to ensure the dev gets slooshed into the gaps a bit more efficiently?

Most definitely. The longer the development, the darker the negs.

Noted. This is all useful info to me!

Certainly for the next day and even for longer. The stop is only akin to vinegar and the fixer might crystallise over time if not sealed but it won't come to any harm. Put them in sealed bottles as soon as is practical though.

Yes, I will dig out some suitable bottles. Do the bottles need to be opaque? Are the chemicals affected by sunlight at all?

A "proper" negative is the one that looks like you want it to look and that prints how you want it to print

Oh, a nice easy moving target then...

[Joanna Carter]

The Ilford PDF doc said 10 seconds with the stop, but the bottle says 30 seconds. I left it in for a minute because I was fiddling with the funnel to get it back into the graduate... it's bright yellow, so I thought that may be the cause of the slight warm tint to the neg.

The yellow colour is only an indicator that turns purple when the stop loses its effectiveness. Times like a minute are unlikely to cause problems.

Another thing I wondered about is which speed to put the thing on, my CPE/2 has two speeds, I set it speed 1 as other seemed a bit violent..

I know my timings in the ATL1500 are based on the fact that, not only is the agitation rather vigorous, but it also develops at 25°C instead of 20°C. Your idea of 12 mins at 20°C might well be OK at the faster speed.

I've heard about pre-soaking as well, the Jobo manual that comes with the reel and tank says pre-soak B&W film for 5 mins... but the Ilford document doesn't say anything about it, so I didn't do this, is this something you all do?

Ilford recommend against presoaking as they say their film has a wetting agent built in. At 20°C there shouldn't be the need to warm the tank and film, which I think is what the Jobo instructions hint at. But that doesn't stop you from trying a presoak to see if it makes any difference.

[Joanna Carter]

Well the 3 minutes given in the Ilford doc wasn't "adjusted" to compensate for the continuous agitation like the developer was, so I expected it to be enough. I presume it won't hurt to leave the fixer in for longer, you can't over-fix or anything can you?

The Ilford docs actually say 2-5 mins. The actual time will depend on the film you are using. Once again, experimentation may be called for. We use 4 mins at 24°C.

2509N (with the baffles). I've seen a line along the edge where the film was inside the rail where the development is different from the rest, but not on all the sheets ( I did 6 sheets this run ). Would using speed 2 on the CPE/2 to ensure the dev gets slooshed into the gaps a bit more efficiently?

Maybe

Yes, I will dig out some suitable bottles. Do the bottles need to be opaque? Are the chemicals affected by sunlight at all?

Not necessarily unless it's for the developer, but I wouldn't want to leave them for long periods.

[Keith Tapscott]

Well, I've finally succumbed to peer pressure and got myself setup for some home film processing.

I'm a complete novice in the darkroom so you'll have to bear with me. I've got myself a CPE/2 and drum/reel etc and all the hardware I need. I've seen Tim Parkin's videos so I'm pretty comfortable with what I have to do for the E6. Before I do that though, I'm currently going through a B&W phase, and I'm keen to try my hand at that, so I was hoping you can give me a few pointers.

My preference is for very smooth graduations and finest possible grain so I shoot Delta 100, I also have some FP4 kicking about as well. Is the Delta 100 a good choice?

I've read a bit through the PDF document available on Ilford's site which is really helpful, and so I bought some chemicals :

Ilford Ilfotec DD-X
Ilford Ilfostop
Ilford Rapid Fixer
Tetenal Mirasol 2000 wetting agent (heard conflicting reports on Ilfotol)

This is what the document recommended ( except the wetting agent of course ), does this sound reasonable? I'm not interested in toning and other more advanced stuff yet, just want a decent negative for scanning.
I think I understand the jist of the tables, Delta 100 has to be processed in DD-X for 12 mins etc.

At Maldon, Helen kindly sat with me and explained a bit about the zone system and exposing for B&W and gave me a much better understanding of how to use it. I'm fairly confident I know when to use options like "N+1" and "N-1" for my negs, but not how to achieve them in the processing. I'm sure these equate to increasing or decreasing the processing time, but by how much? What does the "1" mean in actual time? How do you work that part out?

You have chosen your chems and hardware well, although I find DDX a bit pricey. A developer I would recommend to anyone beginning B&W photography is the tried and trusted Kodak D-76 which is a steal at 99p for a litre of stock. http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/kodak-d76-1l-361-p.asp
I use it diluted 1+1 and it yield excellent negatives. It doesn`t seem to require much cut back in time if any with rotary-processors either.
With FP4+, try E.I. 100 and 10:45 at 20*C without a pre-rinse. I haven`t used DDX enough to suggest a time for it.

[DJ]

Well I've had another bash, much darker negs this time, but there are still light areas and lots of lovely grey tones between, they're drying now and I'm looking forward to seeing how they scan tomorrow.

I used the DD-X at 1+6 again, but tried an N+ development and let it run for 15 mins, with 40 seconds on the stop and 5 mins for the fix. The 10 washes went a lot easier now the magnet doesn't fall off the spindle....

Oh, I set the bath so it keeps everything at 21 degrees as advised by the manual in expectation of a drop to 20 when pouring in the chemicals, does anyone else do that??

The scene had about 6-7 stops range, I measured the darkest area, where I'd want some very deep shadow detail, placed that at zone I ( adjusted from Zone II for scanning purposes ) and metered zone V. That left about 2-3 stops to the highlight at the most. I underexposed by one stop in anticipation of doing a longer development. At f32 was metering 4-5s which became 20-25s with compensation for 0.9ND, which with reciprocity was around the 1m 20s mark, which worried me a bit, seemed long... does all that seem like a reasonable work-flow?

I've a faint suspicion they might be too dark, I think the shadows, shadow detail and mid-tones look like they'll be great, but overall high tones will be a bit OTT, maybe 14 mins next time? I'll post up a raw scan when it's done and you can give me an appraisal, your feedback on the development would be most helpful.

[DJ]

Well, as I feared the highlights are overdone. The shadow detail seems good and I have detail there, but overall the image is way too bright. I think this was partly developing, and maybe a little bit exposure as well. I'm thinking that 14 mins will be the next try for N+ developing.

Unedited raw scan :



Would this be what you'd expect to see with overdeveloping?

In Photoshop the highlights didn't actually seem blown, just a lot in the high end. I managed to dibble with it in Photoshop a bit to get this, very minor shadow/highlight adjustment, two global curves and a minor contrast boost on the bottom half with another curve.



Prints out quite nicely.

[Patrick Dixon]

Your cover is blown: you are an MP and that is your Duck House on your Moat.

I claim my £5.

[Peter B]

Your cover is blown: you are an MP and that is your Duck House on your Moat.

I claim my £5.

If you're only claiming a fiver, you're most definitely NOT an MP!

[DJ]

Your cover is blown: you are an MP and that is your Duck House on your Moat.

I didn't think to ask the nice people who said I could photograph the Pond House if they were MPs...

I claim my £5

They'll just knock it off the £30,000 you and each of us is now in debt for.

[Joanna Carter]

DJ, your question in Trevor's thread prompted me to reply, but in this thread to avoid too much confusion.

N time for Delta 100 in DD-X 1+4 @ 20°C is 12 mins. Can I recommend that you take a few shots with a SBR of around 7 stops and develop them perfectly normally, apart from reducing the time by 15% for the agitation; this should give you around 10 mins.

Then, take some identical shots and develop them in DD-X 1+6 @ 20°C for 12 mins and see how close to the appearance of the "standard" process you come to. Then you can adjust your timing to suit.

[DJ]

N time for Delta 100 in DD-X 1+4 @ 20°C is 12 mins. Can I recommend that you take a few shots with a SBR of around 7 stops and develop them perfectly normally, apart from reducing the time by 15% for the agitation; this should give you around 10 mins.

Then, take some identical shots and develop them in DD-X 1+6 @ 20°C for 12 mins and see how close to the appearance of the "standard" process you come to. Then you can adjust your timing to suit.

I think I'm heading in the right direction, I just posed the question to Trevor in case he'd already been through all this, if someone else has already "calibrated" Delta 100 in DD-X in a Jobo I'm quite happy to use their data as a starting point

"SBR"? Not an acronym I've heard before.

[Joanna Carter]

I think I'm heading in the right direction, I just posed the question to Trevor in case he'd already been through all this, if someone else has already "calibrated" Delta 100 in DD-X in a Jobo I'm quite happy to use their data as a starting point

The problem is that not many people use higher dilutions for DD-X.

"SBR"? Not an acronym I've heard before.

Subject Brightness Range - the difference, in stops, between the shadow reading and the highlight reading.