scanner profiling

[gari]

I am looking to get my scanner profiled as the final link in a complete profiled workflow, I have seen people talk about IT8 targets and have a question, I know, another one!!
I use Fuji Provia and Astia mainly, I have shot dupes with film holders mounted with a sheet of each back to back and have found that Astia is a little warmer than Provia. Most IT8 targets seem to be for say, Fuji film as a whole(or Kodaketc) for example. If I want to get a profile for each film how would I go about this?
I have thought about getting a reflective target and copying it onto each film, is this feasable? if not what would folks suggest
Thanks
Gari

[BarryWilkinson]

I'm out of my depth here but I have come across this site which may be usefull?

http://www.targets.coloraid.de/

They seem to produce IT8 targets for small groups of film. I'm a little puzzled, if you have an IT8 Target and you have it's colour reference data, corrections via generated profile should work for all films. Or am I completely off target (sorry about the pun)?

Barry

ps Sorry Gari I did not mean to hijack your posting, I was just curious

[DJ]

Technically it shouldn't make any difference. Profiling is measuring the scanner's response, not the film's response, a good profile should work regardless of what you subsequently scan with it. Scanning a target on Velvia and on Provia should in theory produce exactly the same profile ( there may always be slight variances because of the film, IT8 doesn't have many patches and wasn't really designed for profiling scanners ). In profiling from these targets, you're measuring difference from the scanned value to the measured (reference) value. The original LAB value is not used/known for these input profiles. The same colour patch may look different on two different films, but their reference files will also be different, and it's the difference from that measured reference which we use to profile.

Having said that, you can buy IT8 targets on specific types of film that you normally use, if you're gonna buy one, it might as well be on a film you use as opposed to one you don't A guy from Germany called Wolf Faust ( http://www.targets.coloraid.de/ ) makes IT8 targets on different emulsions, they're pretty reasonable, I have one on Velvia 50, I know Joanna has one, and some others from this group as well I believe. If you wanted to go top end, you could buy a Hutcheson HCT target ( http://www.hutchcolor.com/HCT_overview.htm ) which has many patches and is specifically designed for scanners, but you better warm up the credit card first... they're not cheap. I'd advocate ordering one from Wolf.

Whilst you don't really need one for each type of film you use, the major benefit of getting one of these large ( 5x4 ) custom targets ( Wolf or Hutcheson ) is that they're individually measured, which means you have a very accurate reference file. That's a huge win, most of the standard ones you buy like Kodak's are batch measured.

Once you've scanned in your target, you need someone with some good profiling software to create you a profile.

Tranferring a reflective target onto film wouldn't work unless you have a transparency capable spectrophotometer to measure it with afterwards

It's also quite a good idea to keep the target in the freezer when not in use, as it will drift over time, and of course your reference file won't update itself accordingly

[gari]

Thanks for the responses folks.
I was gonna use Robert Whites profile service though I am considering getting the software etc myself eventually, I live in a remote place and getting to "civilisation" to get these things done can be quite expensive not to mention being a bit of an expedition with ferries etc!!

I will look into the Faust targets for the moment.
Thanks again
Gari

[DJ]

Well on the plus side, input profiling ( scanners, digital cameras ), unlike output profiling ( printers, monitors ), can be done entirely remotely and electronically ( assuming you have your own target ). You scan the target, email or upload the image, and can be emailed back with the profile.

[Ryan Grayley]

I have used both the generic 35mm IT8 target and 5x4 custom IT8 target from Coloraid and I achieved better results with the custom target.

I have also found that the software makes a noticeable difference too.
I initially used inCamera from Pictocolor to generate profiles with the 5x4 custom target but the results weren't close enough for me. That all changed when I switched to Eye-One Match by Gretag Macbeth. I am now getting excellent scans. I believe that Robert White use Gretag Macbeth software and hardware for their profiling service.

A useful article is at:
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/it8cal/it8_page_1.htm

Also, and I don't know if this has been mentioned before, I have found differences in scanning software. I use Silverfast AI in combination with my profiles and I have found that this gives a better result for me when compared to Epson's basic scanner software, Silverfast SE or Vusescan.

Just my pennies worth.

Cheers,

Ryan