Wilderness cameras!

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dennis
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Wilderness cameras!

Post by dennis » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Does anyone have any experience of the Wilderness cameras? There is currently an 8x10 advertised on ebay which looks very interesting, but with an almost anonymous site.

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by Joanna Carter » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:17 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Based on the fact that the domain (bhcamera.us) is actually registered to a Chinese address, and that all the site seems to be is a box shifting operation, I would rather support our own UK camera manufacturer, Mike Walker. By the time you take shipping costs and import duty into account, Mike's prices are comparable and you get a product that you can get support and help for in the UK.

Why throw even more money at China when you can support UK companies? 8) :D
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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by David Rees » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:07 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

There is a thread on another LF site, which covers this very camera:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ ... hp?t=71835

Works out about 25% cheaper than the Walker 8x10, and has considerably more bellows extension -- useful if you like 600mm focal length on 8x10. I'm tempted myself, but really am trying HARD not to buy any more kit just now...let us know how it works out if you buy one.

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by IanG » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:35 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Depending on how this Chinese company ships it could be considerably cheaper than a Walker, but the cameras are different so we aren't comparing like with like.

There was no VAT or Duty on my Gaoersi that's a big saving in itself.

Ian

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by Joanna Carter » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:52 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

IanG wrote:There was no VAT or Duty on my Gaoersi that's a big saving in itself.
The truth is; if the item came from outside the EU, either the sender falsified the value of the declaration or you were just plain lucky that the duty never got collected. The latter was quite a common occurrence with the Royal Mail.

As far as I can see from the TARIC site, the duty rate on a camera should be 4.2%, then 20% VAT added on to the duty-inclusive total plus carriage charges.
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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by IanG » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:57 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

It's more a case of bad luck being charged Duty & VAT, particularly on smaller items. Out of over 50+ purchases from the US I've paid tax about 4 times, it's more likely to occur on items that appear to be coming from companies rather than private individuals and also size/weight.

So I paid no duty on 3 5x4 cameras & quite a number of lenses there were no false values, there does appear to be regional variations depending which hub items come through.

I wouldn't expect a 10x8 camera to escape tax, but then the Gaoersi is about the same weight as a Wilderness 10x8 camera. I assume I might pay duty when I'm buying then if there's none it's a bonus.

However even paying Shipping & Taxes most cameras are much cheaper in the US/China etc anyway as is film so it pays to import and save significantly.

Ian

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by dennis » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:45 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I do appreciate Mike Walker - I did a 'write up' on him & his then wooden camera for the BJP many years ago, but his current cameras do not compare with what the Wilderness appears to offer. Chalk & cheese. I would be interested in having a first hand opinion on the Wilderness. Dennis.

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by IanG » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:13 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

You could try contacting Celticexplorer who posted the thread on the US/International LF Forum, he's based in London. Interestingly he says he didn't pay any extra tax on the camera.

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by dennis » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:21 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Ian,
Tried that, but no reply thus far. Dennis.

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by Adrian Twiss » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:57 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

IanG wrote:It's more a case of bad luck being charged Duty & VAT, particularly on smaller items. Out of over 50+ purchases from the US I've paid tax about 4 times, it's more likely to occur on items that appear to be coming from companies rather than private individuals and also size/weight.
I must be the unluckiest man on the planet. :) Of the 10 international transactions I made in 2010/2011 I escaped duty once.

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by David Rees » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:18 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

In my experience, the tax and duty are always levied, except when the value of the parcel (incl. postage) is under £18. This amount is the threshold above which duty and VAT become due.

The real annoyance is the fee levied by the firms importing the goods--ranging from £8 to over £15.

I try, therefore, only to buy small items from outside the EU, or expensive ones. The former avoid charges; with the latter, the charges seem small compared to the savings obtained by buying outside "rip-off" Britain.

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by Joanna Carter » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:56 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I feel a need to stand on my soapbox 8)

The reason why taxes are charged on imports is because most goods sold in this country are sold inclusive of taxes. The prices we see on US sites are not inclusive of taxes and, if you were to buy them in a store in the US, you would be charged tax at the point of sale. We are not being asked to pay double taxes, or do we consider it fair to, effectively, cheat either on government or the other of what is legally due?

What I do find disagreeable are the charges levied by the carrier for collecting those taxes, but even that can be avoided. All you have to do is go to the point of importation and pay them in person; but how much would it cost to drive to somewhere like Birmingham airport?

OK, now I'll get back down from that soapbox :roll:
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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by Neil Barnes » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:44 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I've been keeping quiet - but I too consider it unethical not to pay due duties. Though I do consider the courier's charges for doing that to be inequitable; they certainly seem excessive.

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by IanG » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:02 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

There's no ethics or deliberate avoidance of the taxes/duties when UKBA/Customs don't levy them. No-one in this thread is talking about deliberate avoidance of Duty & VAT either.

It's about the arbitrary nature of the application of these taxes/duties which leads to items not being taxed, some quite large in size etc.

While a new item bought outside the UK/EU may not have incurred local tax it's not really an issue if UK taxes are levied but Customs also charge Duty & VAT on second hand items from private individuals, there's no tax on a EU/UK purchase but there is on the import even though taxes would have been paid when the item was purchased new.

There is another issue because many goods are actually far cheaper in the US anyway particularly photographic equipment & materials and even when you pay shipping, Duty, then VAT there's still significant savings. At present it's cheaper to import Ilford film made here from the US and the savings after shipping, duty & VAT are about 20-25% depending on the format compared to the best UK discounted prices.

I've actually found the staff UKBA (Customs) very helpful, they've just removed the VAT they were levying from an item Parcel Force are holding pending payment of duty & charges. The US seller hadn't given enough details, just the product name & it should have been Zero VAT rated.

Ian

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Re: Wilderness cameras!

Post by Joanna Carter » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:29 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

IanG wrote:It's about the arbitrary nature of the application of these taxes/duties which leads to items not being taxed, some quite large in size etc.
The rules on what is and what isn't taxed are not arbitrary but are definitely obscure :? For example, as far as I can see, there is no import duty on a digital camera body but there is on a film camera :roll: :shock:
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