Lenses for 20" x 16" Camera.

[Charles Twist]

If it's just a matter of a ring with two threads - one outside for the shutter, one inside for the lens - then there are definitely people around who can do that. In fact, I'm getting some parts quoted now to put a couple brass lenses in to a Sinar shutter. It ain't cheap because it's fiddly to get the two threads perfectly concentric, but it's feasible. Probably looking at £50ish per adapter for an hour's work with CAD and a milling machine. I'll see how it goes with this chap I am trying in Eston, but if it works out and if you're stuck and want to stay in the UK, I am willing to help.
The shutter won't be cheap either... £150-200 for a Copal 3 or £100-150 for a Sinar looking at recent sales on Ebay.
Regards,
Charles

[Greg Woodward]

Ahhhh, Have been looking for a comprehensive list of Lenses that can fit shutters, fantastic! Thank you very much, will look into it. I have heard that the Rodenstock lenses are quite easy to fit with shutters and can be done without having to outsource?

That would be fantastic to have some help. In the mean time I think I need to get a lens to start with, hopefully this Monday will bring me one Do you

I will continue to look into the matter and see what I can find, hopefully an Ilex#5 with any luck. But will look to see if you can use copal shutters too.

Cheers guys.

[Andrew Plume]

.............................
The shutter won't be cheap either... £150-200 for a Copal 3 or £100-150 for a Sinar looking at recent sales on Ebay.
Regards,
Charles

Charles

good quality Sinar shutters can go for way more than that - they are definitely a possibility - they can also be 'front mounted' too although they're pretty heavy and it would take a very rigid adapter to hold then in place - it would take something pretty difficult and tricky to mount one of these to a lensboard for use with a 16x20 camera, imho.................................

Greg

if you're unfamiliar with the Sinar shutter set-up, here's a link to Seth Broder's incredibly informative site over at camera eccentric - http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/sinar_2.html

take a look also over on the LFPF - plenty of stuff on there regarding these shutters

regards to you both

andrew

[Andrew Plume]

........................................

I will continue to look into the matter and see what I can find, hopefully an Ilex#5 with any luck. But will look to see if you can use copal shutters too.

Cheers guys.

Hi Greg

I can say with some certainty that Ilex#5's do tend to crop up on eBay but infrequently, typically nearly always in the States and generally get some really good prices too..............................

the most likely source (for having a potential stock of used ones) in the UK, will be mr cad - forget (for this purpose) any adverse publicity that you might read on the web regarding this outfit - speak to Alex there, he'll be able to assist - here's the link - http://www.mrcad.co.uk/shop/home.php - don't bother to search through their site as (a) it's generally accepted that it's hardly ever up to date; and (b) they stock way more than is on the site, literally way more

regards

andrew

[Charles Twist]

it would take something pretty difficult and tricky to mount one of these to a lensboard for use with a 16x20 camera, imho

The back of the Sinar shutter will take a standard 3mm-thick plate of aluminium and hold it tight. Take a lens board for your camera. Build a spacer to go between the two, bolt the sandwich (with screws countersunk in to the aluminium plate so as not to scratch the shutter), et voila, one adapter. Surely not that difficult.
The Sinar shutter has one big hole. I'll need to check but I suspect it's bigger than the Ilex 5's. The Sinar is also newer. I have never seen an Ilex in the flesh, but I can vouch that the Sinar is built to last, eg the shutter release has more to do with the equestrian arts than the photographic. I am guessing you could drop your whole camera, catch it by the cable release before it hits the ground and there won't be any damage other than your dislocated shoulder...
Regards,
Charles

[Marizu]

I'd suggest that you probably don't need a shutter for wet plate (in the UK).
They are handy and I quite like them but I don't think that John Brewer even owns a lens with a shutter.

I believe that some Ronars can be unscrewed and fitted into a shutter with machined shims. The Klimsch Ronars have a different barrel body than the usual Rodenstock 's so I wouldn't be too sure whether they can go into a shutter easily or not. I don't think so.

Andrew's advice about ensuring that you get a lens with a flange is really good. My understanding is that flanges are usually machined from a solid chunk of aluminium which makes them very expensive for big lenses.

My 600mm Klimsch Ronar flange just about fits into a Sinar lens plate. Because I have seen a lot of big lenses, I wouldn't recommend that Greg builds for that size. A 9 inch lens plate would be more appropriate but he could make a step down plate that goes to Sinar size or something like that. That is the approach that I had been thinking of.

It is only when we know what kind of images Greg intends to create and whether he intends to use natural or artificial light that we can give any meaningful suggestions.

[Andrew Plume]

Hi Marizu

another interesting post on this topic and re a couple of your points:

"....I'd suggest that you probably don't need a shutter for wet plate (in the UK)......." - well that was exactly what I felt.......since I do not (as yet) practice either wet or dry plate photography, I thought it best to let someone far more clued up than me, to chime in

".....but I don't think that John Brewer even owns a lens with a shutter....." well combined with Carl Radford, that's probably the best that it presently comes to by way 'of a yardstick' in the UK, at present

".....Andrew's advice about ensuring that you get a lens with a flange is really good...." - thanks for that, my point here is that flanges for apo-ronar's were constructed as 'part of the overall barrel', the same principle applied for the apo-nikkor line of lenses too and yes indeed, sourcing a flange for a very large barrel lens can be pretty expensive too

thanks and regards

andrew

[Andrew Plume]

[quote="Greg Woodward"]Hi all,

I am in the process of making a 20" x 16" glass plate camera..............


Hi Greg

it would be good to hear whether this is intended for wet or dry plate work?

regards

andrew

[Andrew Plume]

greg

here's a link to JB and Susan Harlin's 16x20 camera - http://jbhphoto.com/big16x20/bigcam1.htm

also just type 'lenses for a 16x20 camera' into a decent search engine, preferably mr google and it'll throw up all you need

regards


andrew

[Greg Woodward]

Hey guys,

The camera is intended to fulfil a few purposes, firstly I hope to make 20 x 16 glass silver nitrate glass plates which I will then screenshot and perhaps also scan. I also intend to create a 10 x 8 darkslide to fit in the same camera and hell, why not a 5 x 4 insert too.

In time I also hope to change the plates from silver nitrate to callodian wet plates, but obviously investing in silver baths etc etc is quite cost intensive so I am not expecting to get that sorted any time soon.

Theres looks pretty nice, mine's going to be whole lot more clunky and have much more ability for movements, not that I think I will really get the coverage to use them.

The camera is being built with studio purposes in mind mostly so I thought a shutter might be quite useful considering the nature of the work and the quantity of light I will be using and obviously for 10 x 8 work I can use higher ISO film but the silver nitrate emulsion will be around ISO 1. However I think I will try without a shutter at first.

Just looked at Carl Radford and John brewer's work and I guess if they are functioning without a shutter then there is no reason I cannot do the same. I adore both of their work. In particular John Brewers self portrait... WOW.

Greg

[Andrew Plume]

Hi Greg

thanks for your post - you're going to have your hands full with this, I can see........................

it's always good to hear what people are doing with their gear and their projects too..............rather than simply making a reference to a piece of kit

yep, if it's good enough for Brewer J, then it must be good for the rest of us

regards

andrew

[Greg Woodward]

Hey all,

So I am onto the second day of my build now and have completed my dark slide already.

I also went to go and visit a gentleman about a Rodenstock APO-Ronar 1:9 600mm which I have now bought.

So everything is going to plan quite nicely. I am hoping to have the camera complete within the fortnight and hopefully I can have some images to show for October. Already have a couple of sitters for portraits and a few ideas thanks to Mr Plumes links to Brewer.

Very exited right now

Thank you all for your help, I couldn't have started without it.

All the best,


Greg

[Marizu]

Just as an update.
Greg has already made a 20x16 camera and is currently shooting onto Harman Direct Positive paper with it.
Check out the process and results on his blog:
http://gregwoodward.co.uk/blog/

It's really interesting stuff, Greg.

[Thingy]

Simples.

Schneider 1100/14 & 550/11 XXL Fine Art lenses. Designed for ULF work on formats ranging from 11x14" up to 20x24"

Bit expensive though....

Schneider XXL Fine Art Lenses

Schneider have created a pair of incredible new lenses with enormous coverage; the Fine Art XXL lenses for the largest picture sizes. Although digital photography is booming, a select band of photo enthusiasts are opting for very large sheet-film formats between 8"x10" and 20"x24", in order to achieve a maximum in sharpness, reproduction of detail, and richness of tone values.

Schneider felt that interest in these Ultra Large Format (ULF) film formats was sufficient to bring out a distinguished series of lenses of appropriate focal length – from 550 to 1100 mm. Both lenses are distinguished by outstanding optical properties, such as low distortion, evenly high resolution over the entire frame . Their image circle of 900mm allows for large adjustment reserves, even with the popular 7"x17" and 8"x20" panoramic formats and coverage up to the extraordinary 20x24" format. These exceptional lenses will literally open up a new chapter in fine art photography with regard to imaging quality.

As the XXL product line is the result of exclusive, small-scale manufacturing; craftsmanship is writ large here. The XXL lenses feature polished brass barrels for a traditional look, but have all the benefits of a modern design lens, like multi coating and computer designed optics.
All first-time buyers can have their name engraved on the name plate ring of the elegant brass mount at no charge (subsequent owners may also have this done at cost).

Both lenses offer:

Image Circle at infinity - 900mm @ f22 - covers up to 20x24"
This allows shift of up to 219mm vertically and 169mm horizontally on 12x20" and 77mm vertically and 66mm horizontally on 20x24"

source: RW

Linkies below:

550/11 XXL Fine Art
Specifications
Optical Construction - 6 elements in 2 groups
Filter Size - 122mm [Front and Rear]
Weight - 2,460g
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.as ... &PT_ID=370


Schneider 1100mm XXL Fine Art
Specifications
Optical Construction - 4 elements in 4 groups
Filter Size - 105mm [Front and Rear]
Weight - 2,320g in Copal 3 shutter, 2,400g in Barrel mount
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.as ... &PT_ID=370

See also: http://largeformatlenses.com/

[Marizu]

Simples.

The Schneider XXL lenses are absolutely breathtaking.
The 550 is of particular interest to me because there are few wide angle choices for larger plate sizes.
The only challenge with using these lenses is that they are relatively slow.
The 1100 (portrait?) lens is down to f/22 when you stick it in a shutter. That's not as useful as it might be for wet plate which has a speed around ISO 1

The 600mm Ronar at f/9 stacks up pretty well.

Greg is currently shooting on to photographic paper at around ISO 3 but he might be moving to an ISO 25 film.