E6 DIY processing?

[Paul Dunning]

I’m thinking of having a go at DIY E6 processing, for chemicals it looks like I have two options, the Fuji Hunt 5L 3 bath kit or the Tetenal 5L 3 bath kit, prices are similar but the Tetenal says it will do 60 films compared to the 40 films for the Fuji kit (135 I assume, don’t yet know how this equates to 5x4 sheets).

All things being equal the Tetenal sounds like the better deal but I don’t want to compromise on quality, which would you recommend?

Hardware wise, I’m currently using a CombiPlan tank for B&W with a tempering bath to control temperature and I’m assuming this will also be fine for E6 but my understanding is that some kind of rotary processor, i.e. Jobo, would be more economical and maybe easier, or am I imagining that?

Lastly, the tap water here in Bristol is pretty hard, is that a concern? I do have an old RO unit (from when I used to keep tropical fish) so that’s a possibility if needed?

Finaly, if you do your own E6 processing then I’d love to hear your thoughts and experiences.

Thanks,
Paul.

[gary mulder]

one 135mm flim = 4 sheets 5 x 4
The amount of film's you can do depends on the quality you expect. Especially the blix part. Colors will become more muddy with each reuse.

[Paul Mitchell]

I'm sure Tim won't mind but here's a link to his excellent tutorial on film developing

http://www.timparkin.co.uk/blog/jobo-film-developing

Paul

[Georges Giralt]

Hello !
Having, for a long time, done my E6 at home, I have to comment on your needs.
IMHO, the better chemistry kit available is the "Kodak Single Use E6 chemistry kit". It is devised for exactly what you're planning : low or very low volume processing at home. The leaflet give mixing instructions for tanks or drums and various quantities, and processing instructions.
I do not know if it is easy to get in your part of Britain. Last but not least, it is a full 6+1 bath kit so stick to the exact E6 processing standard.
IMHO, processing E6 without, at least a Jobo processor is wasting materials, time and money. I've done a lot of E6 in a tempered bath using Paterson tanks for 135 processing, but is took a long time to get the processing perfectly good.
Buy a used CPE2 and a 252x tank wit h a 2509 spiral and you're ready to start. It is not mandatory to get a lift on your processor. But it is mandatory to get 3 medical thermometers (the "mercury" type (which does not contain mercury any more)). Put them into the bottles, filled with water, you plan to use for first dev, chromo, and water bath. Adjust the thermostat of the Jobo t'ill you get the correct temp into the bottles, and mark the thermostat position. The markings are not precise at all but the thermostat is. So once you've got the setting correct, you'll be able to reproduce the temperature.
Practice a couple of times with an empty tank, and water as processing chemistry, just to get the timing correct, and then commit your first sheet of film.
Keep in mind that a wet E6 tranny will look awful.. So refrain until dry before dumping it ...
Enjoy !

P.S. :
I just checked my dealer web site to see that Kodak has stopped making the single use kit. You've to buy cubis of individual bathes if you want to go the Kodak route ...

[dave_whatever]

Paul I started a thread along these lines back when I got set up to do home E6, might be worth a read if you haven't already as people chipped in with plenty of good advice.

I use the fuji kit, doing it all with the standard times, with the addition of a few minutes pre-wash to fix a splattering issue I was getting. I routinely do 12 sheets of 4x5 per 250ml of chemicals, or 6 sheets plus 2x120. I decant the stock kit chemicals into old beer bottles sealed with wine-bottle type vacuum lids. This way I've currently had the kit "open" for about 20months without the juice going off.

[Paul Dunning]

one 135mm flim = 4 sheets 5 x 4
The amount of film's you can do depends on the quality you expect. Especially the blix part. Colors will become more muddy with each reuse.

Thanks Gary, I was going to do the math later but you beat me to it
Paul.

[Paul Dunning]

I'm sure Tim won't mind but here's a link to his excellent tutorial on film developing

http://www.timparkin.co.uk/blog/jobo-film-developing

Paul

Thanks Paul, I'll have to have a look at that, should have guessed Tim would have covered this, his site is a mine of information which I've spent quite a bit of time reading through.
Paul.

[Paul Dunning]

Hello !
Having, for a long time, done my E6 at home, I have to comment on your needs.
IMHO, the better chemistry kit available is the "Kodak Single Use E6 chemistry kit". It is devised for exactly what you're planning : low or very low volume processing at home. The leaflet give mixing instructions for tanks or drums and various quantities, and processing instructions.
I do not know if it is easy to get in your part of Britain. Last but not least, it is a full 6+1 bath kit so stick to the exact E6 processing standard.
IMHO, processing E6 without, at least a Jobo processor is wasting materials, time and money. I've done a lot of E6 in a tempered bath using Paterson tanks for 135 processing, but is took a long time to get the processing perfectly good.
Buy a used CPE2 and a 252x tank wit h a 2509 spiral and you're ready to start. It is not mandatory to get a lift on your processor. But it is mandatory to get 3 medical thermometers (the "mercury" type (which does not contain mercury any more)). Put them into the bottles, filled with water, you plan to use for first dev, chromo, and water bath. Adjust the thermostat of the Jobo t'ill you get the correct temp into the bottles, and mark the thermostat position. The markings are not precise at all but the thermostat is. So once you've got the setting correct, you'll be able to reproduce the temperature.
Practice a couple of times with an empty tank, and water as processing chemistry, just to get the timing correct, and then commit your first sheet of film.
Keep in mind that a wet E6 tranny will look awful.. So refrain until dry before dumping it ...
Enjoy !

P.S. :
I just checked my dealer web site to see that Kodak has stopped making the single use kit. You've to buy cubis of individual bathes if you want to go the Kodak route ...

Thanks, so it seems like I need to start shopping around for a Jobo which I had a suspicion would be the case. Shame about the Kodak kits not being available anymore, I do remember reading somewhere that the Kodak chemicals can now only be purchased in bulk, a shame.

Paul.

[Paul Dunning]

Paul I started a thread along these lines back when I got set up to do home E6, might be worth a read if you haven't already as people chipped in with plenty of good advice.

I use the fuji kit, doing it all with the standard times, with the addition of a few minutes pre-wash to fix a splattering issue I was getting. I routinely do 12 sheets of 4x5 per 250ml of chemicals, or 6 sheets plus 2x120. I decant the stock kit chemicals into old beer bottles sealed with wine-bottle type vacuum lids. This way I've currently had the kit "open" for about 20months without the juice going off.

Thanks Dave,

I think I've just found your thread, is it this one? I should have searched harder before starting this thread, oh well.

250ml for 12 sheets sounds excellent. It takes close to 1ltr to fill my Combiplan which isn't so much of an issue with ID11 for B&W as it gets re-used but my understanding is that E6 chemicals are one-shot, is that right?

Paul.

[Joanna Carter]

250ml for 12 sheets sounds excellent. It takes close to 1ltr to fill my Combiplan which isn't so much of an issue with ID11 for B&W as it gets re-used but my understanding is that E6 chemicals are one-shot, is that right?

Yes, although E6 chemistry can be re-used, it might need time compensation as the chemistry depletes.

What is more, you can save on B&W chemistry with the Jobo

[dave_whatever]

Aye thats the thread. If you end up with a fuji kit the documentation with it gives corrected times for reusing the juice for subsequent runs. You basically add 30 secs onto the times for the 1st dev, color dev and blix. The washes remain the same.

[Paul Dunning]

Thanks all,

I've just been hunting around for processors on eBay, there are a few CPE2s which is probably what I'll try and get but I was intrigued to see an ATL 1500, I'm guessing it will go for a lot more than I'm willing to pay but what do you think a fair price would be bearing in mind it's missing all accesories, i.e. no tanks or hoses?

Thanks,
Paul.

[IanG]

Thanks all,

I've just been hunting around for processors on eBay, there are a few CPE2s which is probably what I'll try and get but I was intrigued to see an ATL 1500, I'm guessing it will go for a lot more than I'm willing to pay but what do you think a fair price would be bearing in mind it's missing all accesories, i.e. no tanks or hoses?

Thanks,
Paul.

The parts for Jobo's are now a problem so I'd stick to a CPE. I used to use my Jobo 2000 for E6 it's pre Rotary so I used 1 Litre per 6 sheets with inversion, and with that volume re-use was easy. I bought a second 2000 tank to use in Turkey and the previous owner had used it for E6 on a hand roller base with no problems.

Remember that in modern colour processes only the first development is very critical in terms of time & temperature, the other stages are to completion. This amkes E6 quite a simple process unlike many of the earlier Agfa based processes and earlier Ektachromes.

Ian

[Joanna Carter]

I've just been hunting around for processors on eBay, there are a few CPE2s which is probably what I'll try and get but I was intrigued to see an ATL 1500, I'm guessing it will go for a lot more than I'm willing to pay but what do you think a fair price would be bearing in mind it's missing all accesories, i.e. no tanks or hoses?

I paid £200 for an ATL1500 and that came with some of the tanks and reels. It cost me about the same again to get the rest.

Since the guy doesn't even know how it is meant to work, and that it needs, at least, one tank to test its functionality, I would give this one a miss, unless he is willing to accept an inspection from someone who knows what they are talking about

You will also need to decide how you are going to supply water at a constant temperature for washing. There are two options, a complicated, thermostatic, mains fed supply, or a low pressure system, fed from a big bucket with a heater in it via a caravan pump. I use the latter to good effect and it is a lot cheaper to set up than the former.

[Paul Dunning]

Thanks Ian, thanks Joanna,

CPE2 it is then, that ATL1500 was already looking a bit pricey and you’ve convinced me to let it be.

Paul.