Models for LF portraiture

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Darwinean_John
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Models for LF portraiture

Post by Darwinean_John » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:09 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Until fairly recently I hadn't really been motivated to do much portraiture.
However, several images I have seen over the past 12 months have gradually awakened a better appreciation of the potential rewards of that genre.
Most recently, the great portrait from Charles (on a different / recent thread) and an image I saw in the NPG has quickened my urge to find a model and start burning some sheets.
But maybe there lies an additional problem specific to LF.
Where do you find experienced models that are comfortable with the pace of LF and lack of immediate feedback during a session (assuming film of course)?
And I anticipate needing them to make micro-adjustments to their pose to locate the thin plane of focus in the right place.
Of course, I would briefly talk them through the equipment and try to manage their expectations about the session in advance but their may be a danger of them quickly becoming bored.
How do you retain the compliance / enthusiasm of your models?
Still learning to see

Peter B
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Peter B » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:17 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I should start off by saying that I've never actually done this myself, but I think your best bet might be a life model who is used to adopting a pose and holding it for quite a while with minimal movement. If you are anywhere near an art college, they could well be able to help you find one. The linked website might be a starting point?

http://www.modelreg.co.uk/index.php

Good luck, Peter

Marizu
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Marizu » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:23 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I wouldn't worry too much about using specific models.
Just spend some time explaining the process and you should be good to go.
When friends are round for cuppa, sit them in the garden and make a portrait.
When you see your neighbour, ask them to sit for you.
At a push, go and sit on a bench with the camera on a tripod. People will ask what it is and explain that you are looking to make some portraits if they have a couple of minutes to spare.
Avedon's American West subjects were humble everyday people, not models.

Things to consider:
1. People moving. People don't have a great concept of staying still these days. If they are sitting down, then they wobble less than if they are standing up. If they are leaning against something, they move less than if they are sitting upright.
2. Buy some cheap film. That way, you don't feel uncomfortable wasting a few sheets.
3. You need to become intimately familiar with your shutter and settings so that you can operate them without too much hesitation.
4. Do not transfer your anxieties about wasting film etc on to the model. You need to be able to talk to them calmly and engage them through the sitting. See this video of Martin Schoeller working. He is sitting behind a massive bank of lights so the model can't even see him, yet he is operating the camera and chatting away like it is nothing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZTGXhW ... ata_player. It is Schoeller's rapport rather than the technical skills that make his portraits so good.
5. The picture will either work to your satisfaction or it won't. Don't worry about it. They will gradually get better with time.

I quite like working with monolights because I can take pictures all year round day and night in my back room.
If you are going to take this route, you will be better off with more powerful lights. Whilst I have posted before about using speedlights, modelling lights on studio flashes make it much easier to focus on the ground glass.

Charles Twist
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Charles Twist » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:16 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I'll second all Marizu has said.
Explanation is a must. I tell my subject that the picture happens in two stages: focussing and taking. I tell them when I want to alter something, or when I move from one phase to another. It's relaxing for the sitter to know what's going on. And they mustn't move during the process although they are free to change their facial expression - ie smile or whatever. The hardest bit for me is when I come out of the dark cloth. For those few moments, I haven't a clue whether my subject relaxes a bit and moves. I make it a game: "no you moved - let's do it again" and they quickly get accustomed. Some people are amazingly steady, like Alan in that picture you refer to John or Peter in the shot below.

Image

In Alan's case, I took the snap; he relaxed and then returned to his pose; I checked focus and he was still sharp. I couldn't do that but that level of control is essential when shooting so close. So be smart about your subject: if they are fidgety, back off with the camera and increase your dof. If they don't like having their picture taken, leave them alone until they are habituated - if ever they do. Some people look great on the first shot, but jaded on the second. Some people look timid on the first shot and full of confidence on the second. So always take two shots - handy those double dark slides! 8)

The advice of leaning on or against something is excellent. I used it with my 11-yr old niece in daylight and it's tack sharp without flash. It helped that she thought LF was "way cool". :D

Image

If all else fails, use bribery. Doggy biscuits are a favourite with some...

Image

Flash is useful, but not essential. (If you use flash, you need modelling light, IMO.) I have learned to forego it and accept movement and softness. It's another style. In this one, it was a dark milking shed, a 1/2 sec exposure and he was laughing.

Image

As Marizu says, it's about rapport. LF is very different to digital. Use it to build a bridge. And when you're shooting you can be beside the camera not hidden behind it, so use your expression to modulate your subject's expression. Confidence and calm are essential.

Now, finding a model: I found people to be receptive mostly, especially if you offer them a print for their efforts (make sure they realise just how valuable your time is and how unique LF and your style are! :wink: ). I sell at a local market and asked the stall holders if they would mind: most were happy to be shot en plein air. I sell at a local gallery and I asked the artists if they would: a dozen came forward and I shot them with flash (like Alan above). I have found that people who are proud of what they do, make for great subjects.

Image

Hope that helps,
Charles

Paul Mitchell
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Paul Mitchell » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:52 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Good luck with your search, just don't get one like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pawk3OLBdE :D

Paul
When people ask what equipment I use - I tell them my eyes.

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Andrew Plume
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Andrew Plume » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:34 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

there's shed loads of portrait work (all taken with LF Cameras) over on the US forum

generally, a new thread is started for each month, here's the link to the current one:-

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ ... -Portraits

regards

andrew

George Hart
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by George Hart » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:45 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Charles, that doggy is the best portrait I've seen in years!

George

Darwinean_John
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Darwinean_John » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:49 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I knew you'd come up with the goods guys, thanks.
Charles, thanks again for sharing your images, I wondered if the less-controlled environment of the dairy milking room made the farmer image a particular challenge - I do like it.
Thanks Paul for the short film, very instructive
And Andrew, thanks for link to the US site, looks a good source too.
Still learning to see

Charles Twist
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Charles Twist » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:55 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Thanks, George. Very kind of you - I am flattered. And relieved as it required 6 sheets of film to get one good one.

@John: the main problems were practical. The cows were spooked by my presence. I was near the entrance to get some light and the cows were not keen to go past me. But I was behind a barrier so there was no risk to me or the camera. Well apart from wet cow dung being splattered about regularly. Scariest part was that all the gear was right next to the main drain - a 2 foot wide, uncovered hole in the ground - with 4 people moving around in a cramped space. The lack of space and the limited light meant I only saw this one composition. The main technical challenge was the low light, even with a wide open Petzval f/4. I used a lot of swing and thankfully, the gentleman was at the thick end of the dof wedge. Then once the camera was set up, it was just a matter of waiting for the "decisive moment" (what's more, one that had to last a second or so). TBH, I hadn't a clue how the picture would turn out, but I knew from experience that they come good most of the time.

Re Petzvals and swirling: Andrew and others, do you reckon a projection lens would swirl in the centre of the image, behind the focussed subject? I know my lens is a camera version, but it really only swirls in the farther reaches of the image circle and then not always. For portraiture, the close focussing increases the image circle and reduces the probability of me seeing any swirling.

Re Petzvals generally: (i) They are very subject to glare. They need a proper lens hood and you have to apply that old maxim: don't shoot in to the light (which isn't true really any more with modern lens coatings). I'll pull out a shot of an arc welder at some stage - interesting... :wink: (ii) The focal plane is curved outward, which is a bit trippy.

Best regards,
Charles

Andrew Plume
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Andrew Plume » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:32 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Darwinean_John wrote:I knew you'd come up with the goods guys, thanks.
Charles, thanks again for sharing your images, I wondered if the less-controlled environment of the dairy milking room made the farmer image a particular challenge - I do like it.
Thanks Paul for the short film, very instructive
And Andrew, thanks for link to the US site, looks a good source too.

thanks, only happy to help

regards

andrew

Andrew Plume
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Andrew Plume » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:39 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

[quote="Charles Twist"]Thanks, George. Very kind of you - I am flattered. And relieved as it required 6 sheets of film to get one good one.


Re Petzvals and swirling: Andrew and others, do you reckon a projection lens would swirl in the centre of the image, behind the focussed subject? I know my lens is a camera version, but it really only swirls in the farther reaches of the image circle and then not always. For portraiture, the close focussing increases the image circle and reduces the probability of me seeing any swirling.


Charles

re 'projection lenses'. I would look at this from another direction. 95% of the petzval proj lenses that 'swirl' that I've seen during the past couple of years, say 50 +, are very short in fl - on average 5/5 1/2", ok they're fast but they're only really useful for quarter plate or 4 x 5 at a push for decent portrait work

I'm assuming that you're focusing on 4 x 5/5 x 7 for this work??, and so there may well be no need to consider this?

regards

andrew

Andrew Plume
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Andrew Plume » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:00 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Charles

I'm guessing that both the portrait of your niece and the guy on the boat were taken in Australia?

UK girls rarely have that appearance and well, boats are different over there too..............

regards

andrew

Charles Twist
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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Charles Twist » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:10 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I'll move the Petzval query to a more appropriate category, so we can talk about it at length. You'll need to copy your answer there, Andrew, as a I can't move a single posting.

Here's the welder shot:
Image

Best regards,
Charles

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Re: Models for LF portraiture

Post by Oliver » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:53 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I've come to this thread late, but I want to make two comments.

1. What a great thread. A well thought out and intelligent question, clearly put, and a series of sensible and eminently useful/helpful replies.
2. This is what I read this forum for. Thank you to all who have contributed to the thread.
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Oliver's Twists (http://martynoliver.wordpress.com/about)

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