Kentmere doomed

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vanman
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Kentmere doomed

Post by vanman » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:34 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I've just read on another forum that Harman Technologies has taken over Kentmere. This is really sad news on two points, I doubt if Harman will continue to produce POP. If they do the cost will be astronomical. I doubt if Harman will continue to seek another paperbase to replace the discontinued paperbase that was used for Document Art paper.
Prices will rocket, trust me.
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Post by Andrea » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:04 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I think you are wrong
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vanman
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Kentmere doomed

Post by vanman » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:02 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Hi Andrea,
Which bit do you think I've got wrong? I really can't see a company like Harman keeping two factories open producing the same products (M.G. papers etc.). It also seems that POP paper isn't that easy to produce and I suspect that the market isn't massive (anyone else here tried it?).
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Re: Kentmere doomed

Post by keffs » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:41 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

vanman wrote:...I really can't see a company like Harman keeping two factories open producing the same products (M.G. papers etc.).....
I do believe that the press release says they will:

<<the Kentmere brand will remain relatively unchanged. It will continue to offer the same resin coated and fibre based monochrome papers and inkjet products, including Opaljet, whilst employing the same marketing approach>>

Obviously time will tell if it is viable.

Steve

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Post by Andrea » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:57 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Apparently, Ilford have a 20 year lease on the Mobberly site. So perhaps they will then migrate to The Lakes. Also, Ilford have taken on coating Bergger emulsions/paper [not rebranding] so will require extra capacity.
AS for POP, they have all the market. Why stop?
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Post by Lee Turner » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:39 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

There's been quite a lengthy discussion on the subject on APUG. Simon Galley from Ilford has stated a few times that the product range will remain unchanged and whilst there is some scepticism there is also a very optimistic outlook. One thing that venture will enable is a stronger purchasing power as Harman will be buying for themselves, Kentmere and Bergger. One of the problems facing paper coaters is that both minimum order quantities and costs have gone up for both paper bases and raw materials. This has led to the discontinuance of some of the more popular Kentmere papers such as Art Classic etc. Who knows, with Ilford having a bit more clout in the marketplace we could see the re-introduction of some of these products. I'm just hoping that they'll be able to coat the Bergger equivalent of Forte Poly Warmtone.

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Kentmere Doomed

Post by vanman » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:30 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Lee,
Kentmere stopped making Document Art because they could no longer obtain the paper base. Kentmere were trying to find another suppler, Eastern Europe was mentioned. I remain unconvinced that Harman will bother to continue the search.
As I understand it POP is difficult stuff to make, atmospheric conditions have been blamed for problems in the past and the coated paper has a short shelf life. It is specialist stuff, it's not a paper for enlargements, if you do smaller then 5x7 / half plate I doubt that you will have used it, or that you ever will. The results do not appear as a conventional black and white print. The results are best gold toned, not cheap, don't try Selenium as a cheaper alternative 'cos it don't work. Harman want to produce in mass for increased profits, all the popular papers will no doubt continue to be made..................but POP & Document Art???
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Post by Andrea » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:52 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

POP is excellent stuff and I beleive there is still a good market fr it.
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Post by IanG » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:43 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Much of the demand for POP is in the US, it is the best way for making modern prints off early vintage glass plates.

Kentmere make POP to special order for the Chicago Albumen Company, to their formula and specification. Production totally depends on their orders only a very small proportion reaches the UK market.

Martin Reed (Silverprint) has posted elsewhere about trials of a new Art type paper on a different paper stock, fine for small scale trials but the paper isn't suitable for modern coating machines. Probably the only machinery suitable would be the EFKE coating & drying line.

There are too many negative comments about Ilford's takeover of Kentmere, there is a huge demand for B&W papers in the US and with the Bergger tie up the Ilford/Kentmere merger makes total sense.

Ian

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Post by Keith Tapscott » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:06 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

IanG wrote: There are too many negative comments about Ilford's takeover of Kentmere, there is a huge demand for B&W papers in the US and with the Bergger tie up the Ilford/Kentmere merger makes total sense.
Ian
Yes, I agree. Ilford were formerly owned by `International Paper` who are the world`s largest manufacturer of paper, which might mean that Ilford may be able to help find a suitable surface for coating the Kentmere Art paper emulsions onto. Ilford`s (Harman Technology) ownership of Kentmere should also help the Kentmere brand to become more popular in terms of international sales of these products.

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Kentmere POP

Post by IanG » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:44 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

A further point about Kentmere's POP.

Production of this paper only started in 1996 after demise of Guilleminot (France) who had begun making POP for the Chicago Albumen Co's in 1988. Guileminot themselves only began manufacture of POP after Kodak dropped its last POP, in 1987.

Ian

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Post by uraniumnitrate » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:05 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Doomed? Maybe a harsh word. The changing of the ownership doesn’t necesarely have to be a bad thing at all.

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Post by Keith Selmes » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:41 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

POP is good stuff, and seems quite popular around the web.
I've used it with 6x6cm ,6x9cm and 4x5.
Nothing wrong with pink prints, although Gold Chloride is supposed to improve the lifespan as well as giving a choice of colour.
I'd be annoyed if it disappeared. Back to the recipe book then.

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Post by Justin » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:44 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

i do like POP a lot (mainly in the summer) but i think i would just make my own if kentmere/Ilford didnt.

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Kentmere Doomed

Post by vanman » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:29 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Well, It's started.
It has been reported on another site that Simon R. Galley has announced Harmons intention to close (asset strip?) The Kentmere factory at Stavely in 2008 and "transfer some personnel and manufacturing equipment to The Harman Technology facility at Mobberley".
I predict that the next step will be to shove all the equipment on a ship at Liverpool Docks and send it to India where all of us who have contacted "call centres" in that country know their attitude to customer care (as an ex-customer I would like to say a BIG hello to Barclays, British Gas and B.T.).
What other options will be open to Harmon when the lease runs out?
The future lies in the east!
Vanman.

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