Another newbie question about lens choice

[Paul Mitchell]

Hi

I am a total newbie to LF (see my 'Hi from Buckinghamshire' posting in the new members section) and need to ask for some advice on lens choice etc. I've been following a recent similar thread but I have slightly different requirements.

Initially I have decided to buy two lenses for my first 4x5 (Chamonix 45N-1), a 150mm and a 90mm. I plan to use them both for landscapes. I have also decided to buy new from Robert White (don't trust fleabay).

My preferred choice for the 150 is a Rodenstock 150/5.6 Apo Sironar N

The 90 is a two horse race between the Schneider 90/6.8 Super Angulon or the Rodenstock 90/6.8 Grandagon N

The first of my questions...

Are these a good choice on lenses to begin with?

Is the Super Angulon worth the £100 extra?

There's also a big difference in filter size on the 90's, the Angulon is 82mm compared with the Grandagons 67mm. I plan to use my Lee filter system with these lenses, will the larger filter size cause any problems?

RW also suggests using a centre filter with the 90's, is this good advice, are they essential? I know it makes a difference on my XPan...

I also need to buy a focussing cloth, the cheapest listed at RW's is an Ebony at £42, are there cheaper/better cloths available elsewhere?

Sorry for all the questions, I have done my own on-line research but wanted some 'real world' opinions/advice

Best regards

Paul

[Matt_Bigwood]

Without going into specifics about the particular models, I've found that the 150mm lens is the one I seem to use least on my MPP.

The ones that get most use are my 90mm super angulon and 180 Symmar - I just find the 180 a slightly more satisfying focal length than the 150 for some reason.

Matt

[Joanna Carter]

Hi Paul

If you only want two lenses then the 90mm and 150mm would seem to be good starters. However, you don't necessarily need to buy new to avoid a certain auction site. Apart from Robert White, you could also look at several other reputable suppliers who hold stock of secondhand lenses : Teamwork, Bob Rigby and FFordes to start with.

My advice would be to get the widest aperture you can, especially on the 90mm, I have a Sinaron badged Rodenstock f/4.5 and having the extra aperture really helps when trying to focus into the corners.

As to the need for a centre filter, I have not found this to be necessary, even with my Schneider Super Angulon XL 72mm. Yes, there tends to be a little less light in the corners on the 72mm but losing 1.5 stops with yet another filter on top of grads, CCs, polariser etc, is more than I am willing to tolerate.

I really don't think there is that much too choose between the Rodenstock or the Schneider f/6.8 but, if money is not a question, or you can find a good secondhand one, then you might consider going for the Rodenstock 90mm f/4.5 Grandagon N, it is the nearest equivalent of the Sinaron that I have and can vouch for. Also, it should not require taking the rear element protection taking off to get it through into a small lens board opening like the Schneider XL does.

As for a focusing cloth, my choice would be the BTZS "snood", it is small and easy to manage and holds itself on the camera well.

[Joanna Carter]

I just had a look on B&H in the states and they are showing a Nikon 90mm f/4.5 Nikkor SW for only $900 !!! At that price its worth bringing it over; import duty would be 6.7% and then VAT which would still be cheaper than the £1000+ that I've seen it for over here. Helen (Summers) has Nikon 90mm and 180mm lenses and they are both superb lenses.

[IanG]

Have to agree with Joanne and add another UK name for second hand lenses, Peter Walnes.

All the companies mentioned are excellent and can be highly recommended, they will all offer a guarantee with a S/H lens. There are plenty of LF lenses available but turnover is usually fast.

If you want to buy new then I can highly recommend the two Rodenstok lenses you've mentioned, I use both extensively, probably using the 150mm for 2/3 of my work, and the 90mm for most of the rest, I use a 65mm very occasionally.

Ian

[Chris Jameson]

Paul, it may have been my thread you were following regarding lens choice.
I ended up with a used Rodenstock Grandagon N 90mm F6.8 bought from Ffordes.
I can't comment on the performance of the lens as I have yet to use it, but I can recommend Ffordes.
The lens was in better condition than described (other than some marks on the locking ring, it looks as if it has never been used) and delivery was very prompt.

You might want to add Mr. Cad (www.mrcad.co.uk) , Linhof & Studio (www.linhofstudio.com) and Fote Arte (www.foto-arte.co.uk) to the list of possible suppliers.

Incidentally, Joanna mentioned a Nikon 90mm F4.5 SW, there is one listed on the Foto Arte site in mint condition for £550 + VAT.

Chris.

[IanG]

Be very wary buying from MrCad, their ideas of good and excellent condition aren't the same as other suppliers, like Robert White, Teamwork, and the others mentioned who are all highly reputable.

Foto arte is at http://foto-arte.co.uk/

Ian

[Paul Mitchell]

Thanks for all the replies, you all seem a very friendly bunch!

I've been scouring all the 2nd hand suppliers, have looked at the majority mentioned including MXV and Second Hand Darkroom Supplies. I don't have a problem buying used but from experience whenever someone I know buys S/H they get a real bargain, whenever I buy S/H I end up with a real dog. Suppose I might get lucky one day...

Matt - Interesting comment about the 180... something I will seriously consider.

Joanna - You might be right with looking at a faster 90, I know that certain Mr Cornish uses the Nikkor 4.5 for the majority of his images. I've googled the BTZS "snood" but cannot find any reference... I presume it's like a neck warmer that can extend over your head?... do you know of a supplier?

Ian - I've heard various stories relating to Mr Cad good and bad... my personal opinion is that they're quite expensive.

Thanks again for all the advice, will let you know how I get on.

Best regards

Paul

[Joanna Carter]

Thanks for all the replies, you all seem a very friendly bunch!

Oh, we are, we are

Joanna - You might be right with looking at a faster 90, I know that certain Mr Cornish uses the Nikkor 4.5 for the majority of his images.

Hmmm, now you're not hoping that "the lens maketh the photographer" are you?

I've googled the BTZS "snood" but cannot find any reference... I presume it's like a neck warmer that can extend over your head?... do you know of a supplier?

Yes, it can be purchased from The View Camera Store. It's not something that you could put around your neck as the elastic for a 4x5 would make it rather a snug fit, but it is the elastic that keeps it reasonably secure on the camera. Talking of which, you might like to check with them as to whether the 5x7 version might be the better choice, depending on the make of your camera and size of the back.

[Paul Mitchell]

Joanna - Thanks for the link to the focussing hood and you're quite correct 'the lens does not maketh the photographer' this is why one of my favorite camera's is a pinhole!

I have bitten the bullet and ordered the Nikkor 90/4.5 and a Nikkor 180/5.6 from Foto-arte. Have made an appointment to view before I buy first though.

Paul

[Emmanuel Bigler]

Hello to all from France and happy New year !
Paul, I have the two "small' 6.8 Rodenstocks, the 75 and the 90.
(our messages just crossed each other, congrats for the Nikkor ! so what follows will be for other readers )
Those lenses at a first glance "suffer" with respect to their competitors because, on paper, they feature only 6 elements inside instead of 8 elements for their elder brothers (the 4.5-75 and 4.5-90 Grandagon-N) but their performance is outstanding.
Only the usable image circle is slightly smaller that the 4.5 models. This means that the loss of shapness in the extreme edge due over-generous shifts will be more visible with the 6.8's than with the 4.5s.
I can't comment on the competiion with Schneider, at this level of performance for professional tools, you can't be dissapointed if the lens is in perfect shape and has not been dropped or disassembled by careless people.
I say this because one of the French readers of our French LF forum had trouble with a rented WA lens, it took him a lot of time to eventually admit that the lens was defective, the shop who rented the lens did not care....
----
I assume that the 6.8-90 Schneider model you mention is the recent 'classical' model.
It is perfectly justified that the 6.8-90 Schneider is more expensive, this is a 8-element lens and a more recent design thant the 6.8-90 Rodenstock Grandagon-N (sold under the Sinar brand as well)
BUT : I am really happy with the "small' 6.8 75 & 90 Rodenstocks.
They are probably the best that can be designed for a 100° wide angle lens with only 6 elements.
They are smaller and lighter than their competitors hence if some day you wish to purchase a centre filter (or is-it a center filtre ? ) the filter will be cheaper.
So if you can live with the smaller image circle... do not hesitate.
Actually I was temped by the 6.8-90 Schneider, but I was so happy with the 6.8-75 purchased as my first LF lens that I eventually stayed within the same product line.

As far as centre filters are concerned, a simple rule is to experiment without and see what happens.

I know a demanding professional photographer in France who considers that centre filters have to be used all the time.
But he refers to top-class architecture images with white walls, taken with a substantial amount of shift, where a non-uniformity of light is unacceptable for the demanding customers who pay him a good price for the qualified job. He considers that the time lost in correcting the defect by post-processing is unacceptable with respect to the inital investment in a centre filter.
My amateur's point of view is the opposite. You are both the provider an the end user of the images ; so you are you own judge !

I have used the 6.8-75 mm in 6x9 without centre filter for several years with no problems. Some day, I had the opportunity to find the dedicated centre filter as a second-hand item, so I purchased it and tested it in 6x12 with generous shifts. Even so the correction is not 100%, but it works fine and the filter factor, 1.5x is manageable.
For the 90mm on 4x5" I think that many perfect images can be made before feeling the need for the centre filter. Some darkening in the corners of a blue sky is perfectly acceptable and seems natural : in fact the human eye can never see the whole image recorded by a WA lens, in fact you scan the landscape and it is very difficult to compare the change of brightness of the sky in opposite corners...

[Jonathan Perkins]

I also need to buy a focussing cloth

Hmmm, now you're not hoping that "the lens maketh the photographer" are you?

Never mind the lens, how about the dark cloth?

http://www.lightandland.co.uk/article.a ... =2&conId=8

[Joanna Carter]

Never mind the lens, how about the dark cloth?

http://www.lightandland.co.uk/article.a ... =2&conId=8

You swine Jonathan, I might just have to investigate this. The only problem us girls have with the BTZS one is that the velcro can attach itself quite firmly to long hair upon exiting from the cloth

Is there anyone in the Lancs/Yorks area that owns one of these that I could take a look at?

[Nimy]

Hi Paul,

I too am a newbie to this site. For what it's worth:

Lens FL will be determined by what 'floats your boat' photographically and perspectively; already inferred by previous comments. I am assuming you already know "35mm equivalents" for 4x5.

Lens make : I haven't the depth of knowledge but your in the right place to find out. I concur with " .. the lens does not make the photographer..", although I find f5.6 or faster useful while working low ambient light. Learnt the hard way that image circle is an important criterion in a lens spec too.

Sources (In my experience) :
I have bought 90% of my LF gear on eBay and never (yet) been ripped off. If the sellers know their subject and are happy to answer questions, they are generally reliable and trustworthy.
I never consider eBay sellers ".... selling for a friend and know nothing about photography".
The States is worth comparing prices, particularly with current currency exchange rates, even with Duty to pay. Badger Graphic know their business, http://www.badgergraphic.com/ .
I have used Mr Cad twice and he lived up to his name.
I support all other recommends already posted.

I work in Belgium but home is a few miles the other side of Maidenhead from Burnham. Happy to talk off-line, send me a PM if you like.

[IanG]

The only problem us girls have with the BTZS one is that the velcro can attach itself quite firmly to long hair upon exiting from the cloth

That's a very sexist statement what about us male ageing hippies

In 30 years of using LF I've never bought a darkcloth, I much prefer to make my own.

Ian