old English cameras

[uraniumnitrate]

I see that a lot of you using Ebony’s, Wista’s but I have one question! What happened with Gandolfi or any of those other beautiful old English cameras? I mean surely there is a lot of them still works today to, don’t they? Give me some information if you know about them or if any of you using them and what that is! I at least know 10 different English manufacturers back in the old days some of it was a large manufacturer too! Or do I mistaken? We had only one here and that was a Szabad which been effectively killed by Hasselblad! I mean Sweden is really the home of the format of a 6x6 cm!

[Bobbo]

As far as I know, Gandolfi is still made,...and at least two people here are MPP users.......Cooke lenses, as used by Ansel Adams and other great name LF protagonists are still in business, albeit mainly with motion pic lenses.

However, most of the great names in British cameras fall into the 'classic camera' area and largely outside the province of this forum which hopefully concerns itself with the modern practice of large format photography. Speaking personally, my interest in following this forum is that there is NOT a big following of the 'classic camera' fraternity present!......I have nothing against anyone who wishes to enjoy classic cameras but that is NOT why I personally (and hopefully most other photographers here) am following this site.

A classic camera owner 'oohs and aahs' over his camera, a photographer 'oohs and aahs' over his/her images,....hopefully!

".........Sweden is really the home of the format of a 6x6 cm!.."

If any country could be said to be the home of the 6X6 format then I think that would be either Germany or England. Hassy was very sucessful but was only one maker,..many other countries have one or more sucessful makers of this format, which was known to those of us who used it a lot as "two 'an 'a quarter square"......'six by six' is much more recent!......The format was already well established and quite old when Victor made his first clumsy attempt at a camera.

[Ole Tjugen]

Gandolfi as mentioned is still "alive and well", and can be found at http://www.gandolficameras.com

A Gandolfi Traditional 5x7" is one of my two favorite LF cameras. The other one is also British, and in a curious way is both modern and classic: The Carbon Infinity 5x4"...

Some of my cameras are at http://www.bruraholo.no/Cameras/index.html - including the Gandolfi (PS: The Technika is sold - I just haven't updated the page).

[uraniumnitrate]

Bobbo!

Of course the 6x6 and 6x7 comes from Germany in the beginnig but what I meant is that we adapted this size and with the arrival of Hassy it took dead to all other sizes except a 135mm and Sweden became a home of6x6 cameras! I know it killed our only one manufacturer Szabad! But those cameras which still exists operates of the owners! Maybe some of it are in a vitrine on display!

That’s why I was surprised that many of you have new cameras as the old ones woks fine too as I’m using 102 years old 8x10 American made Seneca almost every day. To tell you the truth I like that one better than my Tachi as this is twice as heavy as the Seneca. I meant there must be a lot’s of British cameras out there you can use daily! Some of them are really big like even 11x14.

If you compare the Janks with you than there are a lot’s of old Kodak’s Agfa-Anscos and other old cameras being used buy photographers there! Is that the case in UK too? Or just I didn't know anything about it?

Now you wrote!

"However, most of the great names in British cameras fall into the 'classic camera' area and largely outside the province of this forum which hopefully concerns itself with the modern practice of large format photography. Speaking personally, my interest in following this forum is that there is NOT a big following of the 'classic camera' fraternity present!......I have nothing against anyone who wishes to enjoy classic cameras but that is NOT why I personally (and hopefully most other photographers here) am following this site.

Well I don't know how they look at things but there is nothing called "modern" or "old" in view photography! It's still a "camera obscura" with a lens on it! And the purpose of all is to create images with quality! The camera is only a tool and it does not matter if it's new or old! I know only two type of cameras the one which works and the one which doesn't! It's nothing to do with age but one thing is sure if it doesn't work than a camera is wothless! I can't create aything with it! Can I?

[Joanna Carter]

From my experience in this group, most people take either landscape or architecture, both of which can involve having to carry gear over distances; only a few of us regularly use anything larger than 5x4 although, having seen some of Chong's 10x8 trannies at the Northumberland workshop, it certainly is a tempting thought

Older cameras don't always take standard things like film holders and lenses, so keeping to newer standards helps keep availability up and costs down. Older English cameras used to use "plate", "half-plate" and "quarter-plate" film; something that is not so easy or cheap to get and nowhere near so convenient as readily available double dark slides or, better still, Quickload film.

[Paul]

I think that the biggest problem is, as Jo mentioned, weight. Gandolfi 5x4 cameras are somewhat heavy - although I'm sure Ole will disagree
I also think that the major problem is marketing ... when did you last see an advert/mention of Gandolfi cameras? In theory they should be at the top of the LF "tree" - being (probably) the oldest LF manufacturer still in business ... or maybe Gandolfi users are shy?

[Ole Tjugen]

Gandolfi 5x4 cameras are somewhat heavy - although I'm sure Ole will disagree
I also think that the major problem is marketing ... when did you last see an advert/mention of Gandolfi cameras? In theory they should be at the top of the LF "tree" - being (probably) the oldest LF manufacturer still in business ... or maybe Gandolfi users are shy?

I have no idea how heavy a Gandolfi 5x4 is, but the 5x7" is lightweight compared to the Linhof Technika. It's somewhat less "hand-holdable", though. According to Gandolfi, it weighs 2.5 kilos, which IMO is not at all heavy!

The Carbon Infinity weighs about a kilo more, but I guess that's the price I have to pay for the flexibility. Since it replaced a 5x4 Linhof Color, my 5x4" gear got a bit lighter, too!

And the conclusion to this is that most of the weight I carry is tripod (Stabil), tripod head (Uniloc), and lenses (far too many, I brought nine last time I took the CI out for a walk)!

[Richard Kelham]

Gandolfi are still very much in business – producing "modern" cameras as well as the traditional designs.

The older British makes like Thornton Pickard are still usable but they have the disadvantage (shared with many European designs of the same age) of having the GG fold out and the film contained in a bookform slide – hard to come by and probably built for plates rather than film. The Americans started using the modern spring back much earlier, which is why I can easily use my 70-odd years old Kodak 2D.

MPP only started after WW2 so are hardly "classic". Great cameras though!

[uraniumnitrate]

Yeah Richard that's explains it! I thoght of this as one of the reasons! The fold out back is a pain and the probobly the prime reason why you people don't use those cameras and because of that those most likelly became a collectors item insted! Now the thing is this, it's possible to rebuild the back to spring back if you are a little bit handy and not carry your thumb in the middle of your hand! I know people in Germany who did it!
As you stated the Janks had spring back very early looked my Seneca a 102 years old camera with spring back! So it's no problem with holders and so on! I could say it's a hundred years modern camera!

Frankie!

[dennis]

Many of the older LF English cameras are perfectly useable if you can get film holders which will fit, i.e. have the correct film/lens relationship. I'd love to find a really nice 12 x 10 or 11 x 14 Gandolfi or Sanderson, but these seem to fetch 'collectors' prices now in the UK. Dennis

[uraniumnitrate]

Dennis! This film/lens/ground glass relationship is a problem in America too specially with those larger panorama sizes as different maker of the older brand had different standard! I have learned that some of it was done because in that way they could effectively closed out “pirate” products use in their own brand some of it because there wasn’t any standard! It’s very important that the film find it’s self exactly in the same position as the ground glass. Otherwise the sharpness is disappears! Now 8x10 seem to have excepted some standard but of course it’s thanks to Kodak and Seneca whom produced a lot’s of holders which where the same! This of course helped smaller manufacturer to break into the market also some manufacturers emerged who specialised only to manufacture holders! Manufacture a camera which except Kodak or Seneca holders than they don’t had to bother doing it themselves! And when it was done there was so much cameras that the manufacturing holders where a very profitable business! It’s a type of shining your name on somebody else’s back! Isn't it?

frankie!

[Richard Kelham]

Hi Frankie!

Yes indeed – if you buy or make a spring back to fit a Thornton Pickard etc, one that will accept modern standard film holders, then you will have a very useful and workable camera. A modern lens and shutter would probably be a good idea too, but easy enough to do. I had to make a new lensboard for my 2D (I also made a couple for my MPP) and if I can do it ANYbody can!



Richard

[Lee Turner]

Richard, what material did you use for you MPP boards? I've got some MDF which is the correct thickness, but is it better to use two pieces of 1/8" or use a router to channel a 1/4" piece? Routing MDF is not a task I look forward too.

[Bobbo]

"........Richard, what material did you use for you MPP boards?..."

Use paxolin sheet in two layers laminated with glass fibre filled resin,.....far stronger, better easier, more accurate and stable than chip board/router route. If you wish the paxolin lamination can also be routed after setting but you don't need to as the light tight lip can be made up during lamination. Some of my MPP boards are better than the originals.

[uraniumnitrate]

Richard! The modern shutter lens sound good but please understand that you loosing something else there too if you dont looked the old lenses a little more seriously! Now the Jank’s understood earlier than Europeans that lenses have their own character which you can use in your artistic expression if you know how and when! Don’t forget that modern MC and SMC lenses are boring and sometimes just very sharp but nothing else! For example if you looked all those Goerz dagor’s which you get surprised when they fetch a high prices on Ebay and you think it’s a junk but, it has a meaning! There is no other lens that gives you that creamy look with sharpness! Some of the wollensak gives you a kind of over radiance! Some of the British lenses as Dallmeyer soft and the German Universal Heliar with their soft character! I mean that there aren’t any lenses like the Voiglander Apo lanthar when it comes to reproduce colours like thay do! Now! Some of these characters not even a knowledge of the manufacturers but mostly a mistake which we got to learn how to use artistic! I think you people should go out and talk to your old folks because you might just find some good things out there! And they are still cheap there!! I mean the Jank’s pay a lot’s of dollars for those! Just to give you an example the Lanthar and the universal for most of the time goes a way over a $1000! It’s not worth it but a few left and that’s what it cost to be different!

Pssst! And when you are out there and find a 300 mm Lanthar give me a call will you? But surely there is people know a lot more about those lenses than me! I know just a few of it! Let’s say that I woke up late too!