LF camera wanted sinar p2? f?

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Muzamil Choudhury
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:41 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
Location: Manchester

LF camera wanted sinar p2? f?

Post by Muzamil Choudhury » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:00 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Hi

i am new to the forum...looking for a strong decent nice feel ,nice engineering large format camera. I went on a workshop the other day and really loved the Sinar p2 or could have been an F

There is a possibility I want to sometimes use 8x10 film too as well as 5x4 as i want to maybe someday start printing big stuff. Insprired by Andreas Gursky and Gregory Crewdson! any advice ...tips... or where to buy from. I dont know much about lenses either so i need the whole kit really and want to be able to go out and take 10 pictures at least so will need holders too. I like taking photographs of old shops,derelict places,cities,off road,buildings,people,night scenes and cafes, a real mix really apart from real landscapes like sea,beaches,hills etc, dont get me wrong i love all that but i am based in a city so need something sturdy to get around town with.

thanks

Muz :P
Last edited by Muzamil Choudhury on Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:12 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00, edited 2 times in total.

robinb
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Re: LF camera wanted sinar p2?

Post by robinb » Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:06 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Private message sent

Clive Gray
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Re: LF camera wanted sinar p2?

Post by Clive Gray » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:09 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Hello Muzamil

I would if I were you spend a bit of time researching the Sinar cameras before rushing into a purchase. Dave Tolcher started a topic with some links to some usefull information on Sinar cameras and others I have added a few more links to Sinar information you will probably find usefull.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2951&p=17534#p17534

Very basically Sinar Normas are the older cameras made from 1947 till 1970 when they were replaced with the Sinar P this itself was superseeded by the P2 in 1984 The Sinar F is a field monorail camera introduced in the 70's and replaced in 1986 with the newer F1 and F2

Sinar normas are all metal monorail cameras but are not a yaw free design and do not have geared movements exce[pt on the focus

The Sinar P has yaw free tilts and has all geared movements the major difference with the P2 is that it is black rather than silver in colour and the swing and tilt are controlled by seperate knobs on the P a lever selects which function the one knob does.

The sinar F is a simplified field camera that still has yaw free tilts it only has geared movements on the rear focussing standard

Sinar C's are a combination of a Sinar P rear standard with an F front standard

The F1 is a more robust F and the F2 adds geared foccussing on both standards

The X is a cut down P2 where you can not change the format size

just about any bit of sinar camera will work with any other bit as they are modular you can use say a norma back on the later P2 standards, there are a few important exceptions to this compatability which i will try and cover.

With the P or P2 cameras the format can be changed to 5x7 or 10x8 by changing the bellows rear carrier frame and back ...more info on this in a bit

Changing format on the Sinar Norma or the F range of cameras involves changing the entire rear standard and back and bellows note that on the F2 the genuine front standard for 5x7 and 10x8 is a much heavier duty item from the 5x4 one.

The main compatability issues are with the 10x8 bellows with the 5x4 and 5x7 bellows there should be largely no issues some minor exceptions to do with norma belows with the front plate with the round hole for 5x4. The issues to do with 10x8 are to do with metering backs for a long time Sinar has offered film plane metering probes and matching metering backs all the 5x4 and 5x7 backs and bellows are compatable with any era not so the 10x8 here the metering back is considerably larger meaning the back and bellows and carrier frame are different too as well as accessories that fit in to the back ie reducing plates.

Norma 10x8 bellows will fit a P and vice versa but the norma bellows are a better fit on either and some complain of p bellows falling out of normas.

With the 10x8 P or P2 be aware that because of the modular nature of the cameras people often brougfht 10x8 conversion kits the from factory 10x8 cameras that are 10x8 have "specail" heavy duty standard bearers where the index marks are set up for 10x8 the rear bearer is much more massive and the front has much greater rise.

Sinar have over the years made a variety of behind the lens shutters the Copal auto shutter the longest running of these these are an imensley usefull accessory 1: if its your thing it makes using odd lenses easy 2: sinar marketed a large number of lenses to match the shutter without there own shutters these can often be found for greatly reduced prices compared to the shuttered versions ... the disadvantage if the auto shutter plays up you are stuffed. If you go for an auto shutter the cable release is specail to it and must be in good condition if the plunger rod is sllightly bent it will cause you knightmares the auto cable and the matching screw in for the backs is not essentail but if you want to use flash the syncro cable is.

Avoid the digitail shutter untill you know you really want want and are prepared for the potentail grief same goes for the later Expolux shutters.

You can get started cheaply with a variety of F and still use all its bits later if you upgrade, or look into things and possibly a P or P2 10x8 will be a better buy as it will do all you want.

If you are tempted by the film plane metering go for the Sinar boster 1 and the Minolta Flash Meter IV this with a few exceptions is more practical / robust that the other solutions offered over the years :roll: all right then it has a smaller metering area and a longer rod than the earlier probes so can cover 10x8 the earlier ones do not fully do that the main length of the probe is metal the earlier ones are plastic I have seen people suggest the earlier ones are more robust this is not my experience. the FCM booster works with the Broncolour FCM meter but its range is only really suitable for Flash. The earlier Proffiselect TTL has a higher sensitivity than the Booster 1 but is a lot more fragile in my opinion.

This is posibly more than you needed / wanted to know but hopefully sumarises some of what you can do with the Siinar System.

Muzamil Choudhury
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:41 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
Location: Manchester

Re: LF camera wanted sinar p2?

Post by Muzamil Choudhury » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:12 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Thankyou very very much for your thourough reply. There are a few things i still need to learn about the camera as i lost track when you was explaining all technical stuff. Unfortunately i cannot find many ways to actually learn about the parts of the sinar and understand clearly . Maybe because i am an amateur photographer i just know the basics...using my pentax k1000 and hasselblad 500cm i just about manage that. I stick film in find something i like and shoot....with a little bit of knowledge on aperture and shutter speeds i get through.

I am a real basic learner on large format even though ive searched the net....i still get confused with tech stuff, this is only because of my slow learning knowledge....i am a trier so i will keep learning. I am passionate about photography so will try ask more questions. i think i need someone to just guide me through find me the right equipment and explain why and what i need everything for and then i can make the jump and i guess i need some one to one sessions/tutoring saving me the time and money il end up spending on wasted film and gear.

thanks again i really appreciate it
muz

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Re: LF camera wanted sinar p2?

Post by Joanna Carter » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:38 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Muz, let's see if we can arrange a get together in the Manchester area, maybe next week? Marizu, is there a chance we could persuade John and Fourtoes to let us meet there in case it rains?
Reassure yourself - stroke an Ebony

Clive Gray
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Re: LF camera wanted sinar p2?

Post by Clive Gray » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:02 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

The Sinar cameras might appear more complicated than some because of the great variety of options for them, but once you get your head around the way their modular system works I'm sure you will be able to sort out what will work for you.

Some more links for you which will hopefully help in understanding the make up of any view camera.

The Wikipedia entry on view cameras is not bad for identifying the parts of a Large format camera

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera

Also while searching for something else I came across a video on youtube that might help illustrate what they are about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wML47KVn ... re=related

There are some related videos on that page too

A couple of books that you would find helpfull to have a look at if you can find them are, The Camera (The Ansel Adams Photography Series, No 1) and

Using the View Camera by Steve Simmons.

If you get the opertunity to see the different cameras in the flesh that should certainly help your understanding.


It would be possible to say just get an F1 because you can not go wrong with it but if you can handle the extra wieght of a P or P2 and it suits the locations you will go to and the subjects you shoot you might not want to touch any other camera and at that point you might want to think about the more complicated aspects I've mentioned so that you can buy exactly what you need rather than ending up with a collection Image then again you may find a completely diferent range of cameras suites you.

Marizu
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Re: LF camera wanted sinar p2?

Post by Marizu » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:10 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Joanna Carter wrote:Muz, let's see if we can arrange a get together in the Manchester area, maybe next week? Marizu, is there a chance we could persuade John and Fourtoes to let us meet there in case it rains?
I've spoken to Muz. He's just round the corner from me. We're going to try to meet over the next few days.
I spent most of Saturday with John so he's probably had enough of me.

Dean Willcox
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Re: LF camera wanted sinar p2?

Post by Dean Willcox » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:12 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I had a sinar p for years , best camera out there , but to lug around ? get yourself down the gym if your going to get one ? if its landscapes stick to something lighter even though the sinar makes movements a doddle ? field camera good luck

Muzamil Choudhury
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:41 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00
Location: Manchester

Re: LF camera wanted sinar p2?

Post by Muzamil Choudhury » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:52 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Thanks dean. I am fireman but i guess i dont want to wear myself out on my days off lugging a heavy camera around ! :)

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