Hi from Leeds

[BobC]

Hi,

I rediscovered photography 2 and a half years ago with my wife with our first digital slr. We're both keen photobloggers and have started doing the odd craft fair and our first wedding the other week.

For one reason or another, I've been getting a bit cheesed off with digital pics and have been taking more and more images with our 12 quid Holga and Zero Image pinhole camera. The format that really grabs me is 617 - we have a panoramic head and have had some good success creating large panos in digital but I really want something that will capture all the detail of the scene in one go - when there are swift moving clouds or crashing waves, stitching pics together can look quite false.

We recently ordered a Chamonix 4x5 field camera (arriving in August) as I'm very keen to explore some different film formats and originally thought of getting the Shen Hao 617 back for it, but whilst out the other night trying (unsuccessfully) to capture a widescreen sunset I wondered whether a dedicated 617 camera would be the best option for this. The Fotoman would suit the bill as any lenses would be compatible between the two formats. The advantage of a 617 back is that you would still have some degree of movements left but then by the nature of a 617 shot, would you generally need that? I suppose the rise and fall would be handy to correct some perspective.

I suspect that the cost of the whole matter may force us down the Shen Hao back route for the time being but it would be interesting to hear other people's opinions on this.

Thanks, Bob

[Keith Tapscott]

Will your 4x5 Camera accept a 6x17 RF holder?
You might like to try the Fuji 4x5 Quickloads to save on loading sheet-film holders as Kodak have recently discontinued their Readyloads.

[BobC]

Hi Keith, yes it will I think.

The Shen Hao 617 back has an international fit so apparently it works ok though I've never seen one in action. It has an extending piece I think so that the image plane is taken further back to allow for the wider image.

I've talked with UniB on here who has a 612 back on a Chamonix and i think he likes it, I just prefer the wider view - I crop a lot of our images to that format anyway but obviously with digital I'm struggling to print them at 12x36" once I've done that.

cheers, Bob

[Apple]

Hi Bob,

If you want the ultimate (or probably the lost expensive) then there's the Ebony 6x17 camera will all the movements. As I guess you know, Linhof, Horseman and Fuji make them in that format with varying prices / niceties.

I know of a few people on here who've used a Fuji 617 with varying amounts of sucess - it may be worth getting some info from Joanna Carter, Charles Twist (who doesn't post up as much recently) or Masch.

I've not used 617 but have a Sinar Zoom II RFH which covers all formats between 645 and 612 and is changeable mid-roll. These are available but tend to hold their price (version II is better than version I but they both need to have been looked after if buying 2nd hand)

Andrew
(no too far away in sunny Kirklees and waiting for some inspiration / weather to get out and take something... )

[Charles Twist]

I am still alive and happily lurking.
Hello Bob and Welcome! I do indeed have a 6x17 back for my Toyo and invite you to read this previous comment. In addition to what I said there, I must add that upon recent, closer inspection there is some drop-off in luminosity towards the edges. Doesn't seem to be a problem when printed by BPD but the V700 scanner does tend to show it up. It would probably be worth considering a lens with a very wide image circle or a centre-spot filter.
I hope that helps.
All the best,
Charles

[Apple]

Hi Charles,

A little birdy tells me you've got an image in OP - congrats. I haven't seen it yet but if I'm in town I'll look for a copy...

Andrew

[BobC]

Hi guys and thanks for the link. As I'm just starting out in large format I've been wondering which lens to acquire first and was thinking of a 90mm - partly because an acquaintance of mine uses 90 on a Fuji GX617 and gets astounding big landscape views with this.

However, I've also been advised that 135mm is a good starting option - Charles, i notice that's what you said you use mostly with the 617 back. Is that still the case? My favourite lens with gigital was the sigma 10-20, to be replaced later by the Nikon 12-24 so I've always liked wide big foreground shots but have no experience of what the world looks like through 90mm at 4x5.

Apple, I'd thought of just goiung for 612 but the 617 format is always the one that really grabs me

[Charles Twist]

Hello Bob,
One of the limitations of 6x17 backs on 5x4 cameras is that you don't have much focal length range. Depending on your camera and the size of your lens back element, it sort of ranges from 90mm to 150mm. In my case, the only lens I have which fits is the 135mm. I still use it and I still find it very natural. It would be nice to have the 90mm work just for the extra flexibility.
Charles

[BobC]

Thanks for the info Charles. Are you saying the 90mm won't fully work with the 617 back. I'd read elsewhere that some people managed it ok but some say you need a recessed board? Is that right? It's difficult to visualise all this until I get one in my hands, lol.

[Charles Twist]

Yes, I guess that a recessed lens board would work. The problem is that you have a fixed distance between where your film plane is for 5x4 and where your film plane is for 6x17; that's about 40 or so mm. On the Toyo, which I have, the minimum distance from lens board to film plane (for 5x4) is about 60 or so mm. So, on 5x4, the minimum focal length is 60mm if you wish to focus at infinity. But on 6x17, that's nearer 60 + 40 = 100 mm. Ebony's and the such like will allow you to use shorter focals. I guess, I could try a recessed lens board...
Hope that helps,
Charles

[PAUL O]

Hi Bob (and everyone else!). I've been using a 6x17 (Art Panorama) roll film back on an Ebony and have been very pleased with the results. I've happily used a 90mm Nikon f8 and due to its large image circle (235mm) it more than covers the format without any noticeable vignetting. I've had good (best) results with the 110Xl too!

In reality these 6x17 film backs will allow 90mm lenses to be used but the deciding factor is how compressable the camera bellows is. If you have a supple bellows then you may get away without using a recessed panel but to be on the safe side a recessed panel will give you the extra few mms needed to allow you to apply movements - the point of using this back on a LF camera? Another tip - using rear movements makes it easier to apply movements when using the 6x17 back.

You'll be surprised at the opportunities to use movements with this format - just being able to apply a smidging of tilt will render the immediate foreground sharp and if you plan on using the camera for vertical 6x17's then this ability for controlling foreground sharpness with tilt can make the shot - look at some shots taken with fixed 6x17 cameras and many images have signs of softness in the immediate foreground or are composed without foreground present.

If you plan on shooting vertical 6x17s then you may find that you need to alter the set up position of the camera prior to composing - I have to introduce front and rear rise to set a higher neutral position to allow the film back to clear the rear of the camera bed - not a real problem but can be annoying if you compose a shot and then realise the the film back won't attach to the camera!

At the other end of the spectrum I have used a 300mm Fuji T lens with this back and the (useable) resulting image is 56x160mm - so not much vignetting. In fact these film backs give a larger image size than the Fuji, Linhof etc. As far as I can remember the 6x17 cameras all give an image of approx 56x160mm - the Art Pan version of the film back gives a 56x171mm frame!

Finally, don't discount a 150mm lens on this format - a very natural view and ideally suited to this format and most moden 150's have more than enough coverage for the extended format.

Good luck!

[Charles Twist]

Hello Paul,
I have been playing around with one's camera, as one does. I've been looking at trying to coerce a 90mm on to the Toyo, possibly with the use of a recessed lens board. The one thing that strikes me is that the back element of my 90mm (a f/4.5 Nikkor) is quite long at 38mm ish which, once added to the 48mm of the RFH recess (which said back element cannot penetrate), comes out a minimum distance of 86mm. Doesn't leave much room to play with... Do I understand you don't have that problem? I am guessing that I can forget any idea of shooting 6X17 with that lens?
Thanks,
Charles

[IanG]

Bob, I have to recommend the dedicated 6x17 route. I've been using a Gaoersi 6x17 with a 75mm Super Angulon for about 18 months now, it's far more practical than fitting a 6x17 back to a 5x4 camera.

I have the lens mounts for the 75mm and 90mm lenses, but found I never used the 90mm lens at all. With 400 ISO film the camera is very easy to use hand-held which is critical as often I'm working where tripods are nt permitted.

When you think about focal length remember that a 75mm is a standard lens for a 6x6 camera so is only wide in the horizontal plane (assuming the camera is being used to shoot landscape format). I know that a 150mm lens on my 6x17 would be extremely impractical for the type of images I shoot.



Ian