The way this Board is run

Your suggestions on how to improve the site and forums
dave_whatever
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by dave_whatever » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:47 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

joolsb wrote:
There's a need for change


Is there? Shall we put this to a popular vote?
A simple poll thread should give us an answer to this.

Fourtoes
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Fourtoes » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:13 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Yep, just ask your members via a poll.

dennis
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by dennis » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:19 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I vote to keep the status quo. None of the posts thus far have convinced me that there is any great need for change. What do other members think? Dennis

joolsb
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by joolsb » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:47 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I hope I've made my position clear. My vote is for the status quo if anyone is in any doubt.

Joanna Carter
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Joanna Carter » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:53 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

dave_whatever wrote:A simple poll thread should give us an answer to this.
The only problem I can see with that idea is that we might have to take a poll on what the question for the poll should be :shock: :lol: :roll: :wink:

At the risk of boring readers of this thread, maybe the better answer would be for people to reply to this thread, giving their opinions of satisfaction or dissatisfaction; that way we can avoid polluting the rest of the forum with even more argumentative threads.

I hope it is apparent to the majority of our members that we, as admins, always have been approachable and willing to listen to sensible suggestions. Certainly, this is the first time in over six years and, now, 719 members that we have had anyone express, so vehemently, their dissatisfaction.

We appreciate that the website part of the UKLFPG presence is not that up to date or appealing but that is mainly because nobody has stepped forwards to help us do anything better - any offers? 8)

When we first started the UKLFPG, the only means of communication between members was a mailing list and it was for a variety of reasons, including that members complained about the intrusiveness of unwanted messages, that we decided to move to using a bulletin board.

Initially, we only really ever intended to provide space, on the website, for images from those who participated in forums, mainly because it was not feasible to expect people on the original mailing list idea to receive mail stuffed with images; the Projects page was conceived for similar reasons.

Now that we have the forums, people are free to post messages which include in-line images, as long as they host those images somewhere else (like on Flickr, etc). Which now makes a lot of the website appear dated, if not redundant, as people stopped sending images for the website (which involved someone having to write web pages to accommodate them every time) and moved to posting messages with links to the images they wanted to share and that appeared immediately for all to see.

But, at the risk of appearing boring, the discussion forums are what they are - a place for people to discuss and share, nothing more, nothing less.

We never intended to be a rival for the vast LFPF or the more specialist APUG or FADU forums.

We are a broad "church" where people can discuss all aspects of LF photography, where you are not derided or despised for using digital methods, whether that be Gigapixel stitched shots or using scanning and Photoshop because you don't have room for a darkroom; on the contrary, some of us have to use scanning and would love the opportunity to visit someone else's darkroom to see how the "dark side" works and to treat ourselves to a "handmade" print :D

Rather than a poll question, which would possibly be difficult to word, might I suggest that those of you who have suggestions for improvement, rather than "change everything including the admins", make yourselves known in this thread. If you have web design skills that you are willing to give to revamping and maintaining the web site, please let us know.

And, if you think we are fairly incompetent at doing what we do, please remember, we are, first and foremost a bunch of photographers who love LF; we were not born with web site management or forum admin skills; we do those things because nobody else was willing :?
Reassure yourself - stroke an Ebony

David Rees
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by David Rees » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:12 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Since we members are being asked to express our view, here is mine:

I see no pressing need for change.

I never noticed an Ebony clique here, though clearly they are aspirational cameras for a number of people, and they get discussed quite a lot--and the leather strap on the top of Ebony cameras does smell wonderful! But I've owned a couple of cameras that were not Ebony, and never felt "out of it", "looked down on", or made to feel uncomfortable in any other way. I've owned an Ebony, and since sold it (I now use a Walker XL), and it's made no difference to anyone that I can see.

Nor do I see domination of the board by members, from any geographical location, to the detriment of members from any other area. I lived in Hampshire when I joined the group; I then moved to the far north of Scotland, and now am in the Scottish central belt; never noticed any different treatment at any time. When I turned up to workshops and meetings, I was always welcome--as I'm sure is true for everyone who makes the effort to participate.

What I have found, in my 6 years of membership, is a wealth of helpful advice, the chance to make friends, and to mix with others who have (like me) the slightly odd desire to make pictures using large pieces of film. I treasure what this forum has given me.

It would be nice to be able to post larger pictures, but the explanations given in this thread make it quite clear why the situation is as it is; there are workarounds, and therefore I see no great reason to change our hosting arrangements just to address this issue. I certainly don't want us to move to a model of charging for board membership to resolve it; not because I'm tight, but because it's a bother to administer, and would increase the workload on our moderators, who kindly donate their time for free.

The relatively small size of the membership leads to a pleasant feeling of coziness; it is possible to read every thread, since we are not swamped with posts, so one has an idea of what people are up to.

In short, I'm very happy with this board, am very pleased to state that the moderators have my full support, and hope that this board does not change too much--I like it very much the way it is.

Fourtoes
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Fourtoes » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:27 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Yep I'm not bothered about change either.
Quite happy with image sizes on my laptop.

Yes the main website could do with updating but this is a forum rather than anything else to me, so what would you put there? Main intro page and a page of the latest up and coming meet? Thats about it surely.

Dont see a clique apart from all these bloody photographers.

So can we get back to taking pics now? I dont see a problem.

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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by John Brewer » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:16 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Status quo for me. I can't really see what all this fuss is about.

John.

Charles Twist
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Charles Twist » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:34 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Hello Ian,

Thanks for posting a few pointers.

I think that the problem is not with the forum or its steering committee, but your perception of them. When the steering committee participates as members in discussions, our function is not perceived as a threat by anyone other than yourself and Andrew (and even then, I am not sure). We're just there acting as plain members. Why can't you be the same?

As I and others said above, the forum is what the participants make of it. There has never been any censorship until you and Andrew started attacking & insulting individuals (and as you can see, there is no censorship in this thread either, thanks to the civil & responsible attitude of everyone). So if you want to talk about "historic processes and cameras", knock yourself out. The problem is the lack of pick-up. Do not blame the Administrators and Moderators if your pet subject is not talked about. That's a problem with the people on the forum not wanting to talk about it. May I suggest respectectfully that you therefore find a way of making it interesting to them or invite your friends, but don't blame us?

The Moderators and Administrators are there to check the good progress of the forum on the webpage and in the engine room. They are not there to initiate threads or lead on certain topics. That's your job, all of you out there. The users of Ebony's and Photoshop have clearly understood that and they're making good use of the forum. In more recent times, I have taken a personal interest in vintage lenses (probably started by Andrew Plume, in fact) and some conversation has taken place. I am using the forum for what it was intended. Why can't you do the same?

"The spirit of LF photography": that's an interesting one. It's bound to be open to interpretation. The founders of the forum have taken a broad view on this. I personally believe that the founders of any forum have the right to declare at the outset what their credo is. This forum accepts discussions on all aspects of LF Photography and is open to modern processes as well as old ones. We are progressive. That's what gives this forum its identity and participants come here in this knowledge. There are other forums out there with narrower remits; if you're uncomfortable here, you are participating in the wrong forum. Please respect the original vision.

The non-forum part: yup, I wrote that when I had little knowledge of web-building. It needs re-writing. I agree however with Fourtoes that the best thing is to trim it back. It's past its use-by date. Historically, the forum came after the website and many of the functions originally implemented on the website have been replaced with something much better. Are there any objections to us implementing Fourtoes' proposal - from anyone still reading this? And if people want to add particular documents of general use, I am sure we can make room (within reason).

Anybody can show their pictures on the forum, wherever you live in the world - just post them on a dedicated website and link through. We're not able to write a Flickr style site where people upload their own images. We don't have the ability in-house and no money to hire somebody. We'll see what we can do about attaching pictures and might have to issue an allowance or something. Let us get the transfer out of the way and then we'll tackle it.

The rest of your post is cod's wallop which betrays the fact that you haven't read what people have said or that you are unaware of this forum's activity over the last few years. Have a look at the members' list if you want to see where they hail from or when they joined. You'll see we've had international members since the beginning. It people want workshops south of Watford Gap, then please feel free to organise them. There is NOTHING to say it should always be Joanna or me - indeed quite the opposite, we want help.

Carry out a search for non digital processes and you'll see they have been talked about, maybe not from the very beginning but certainly for the last few years:
Ambrotype 2010
Bromoil - 2008, 2009
Collodion - 2008, 2010
Cyanotype - 2009
Palladium - 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
Platinum - 2007, 2008, 2010
Wet plate - 2010

I see no need for a poll. Because of the software set-up, each poll question requires its own thread. We're not going to pollute the General Discussion board with a raft of questions: do we change this? that? the other? There is no point asking the question: do we want change? As Joanna says wryly, we'd be left wondering what is going to be changed. If people have any issues with "The way this Board is run", then they can use this thread. Now, Ian, if you have a very specific question, we would happily consider it. But so far, apart from the double-login issue which we've declined for now, your suggestions are vague and often redundant or unfeasible. Don't hesitate to write when you've got something more substantial to say.

Regards, Charles

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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Joanna Carter » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:58 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Charles Twist wrote:Have a look at the members' list if you want to see where they hail from or when they joined. You'll see we've had international members since the beginning.
Indeed, 36 out of the top 50 posters do not belong to what is being called the "Northern Clique"; and 7 of those are located outside the UK.
Charles Twist wrote:Carry out a search for non digital processes and you'll see they have been talked about, maybe not from the very beginning but certainly for the last few years:
Ambrotype 2010
Bromoil - 2008, 2009
Collodion - 2008, 2010
Cyanotype - 2009
Palladium - 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
Platinum - 2007, 2008, 2010
Wet plate - 2010
Not forgetting Trichromie - 2007, 2008, 2009 8)
Reassure yourself - stroke an Ebony

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Thingy
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Thingy » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:13 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I'm contented. I'd be even more contented if we had Chablis, champagne and canapés...... :lol:
Love is an Ebony mounted with a Cooke PS945.......

Joanna Carter
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Joanna Carter » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:22 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Thingy wrote:I'm contented. I'd be even more contented if we had Chablis, champagne and canapés...... :lol:
OK, let's say, next spring, we all go over to Emmanuel's place and have a workshop there? :D 8) :roll:
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Fourtoes
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Fourtoes » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:34 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Sounds good.

Is that in Northern France or down South?

Joanna Carter
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Joanna Carter » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:42 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Fourtoes wrote:Sounds good.

Is that in Northern France or down South?
Neither :wink: It's on the east coast, right next to the land-locked island of Switzerland :roll:
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vanman
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by vanman » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:30 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I'm writing in reply to Charles initially.
Charles, I agree with virtually everything that Ian has said, even though you seem to assume that he is the only poster with the opinions that he expresses.
A photographic forum where the posters can't post images has got to be a bit of a joke in the 21st century!
Certain peoples insistance of needing to look more important than the rest of us by having their names highlighted in red is just sad, I've not noticed this on any other forum that I've visited.
Trying to deny that the power base of this forum is in the northern half of the country is, in my opinion, pretty pointless. When was any event last held in the midlands? Why boast that 7 of the UKLFPG's top posters are from outside The UK, what's this got to do with anything? Why use the "UK" prefix at all if you want this to be an international forum? Do you want it to be an international forum?
As one who has never had a passport or felt the need to own one I really can't see the need of forum members to continually brag about their ability to rush off to France at the drop of a hat. If the place is that good why not live there? If you travel around a bit I can't see how anybody can disagree that these islands are superb as far as photographic locations are concerned and with basic English I can be understood in most places here (I've been really well behaved here and not singled out anywhere to take the micky out of). No need to learn another language, fantastic!
If this forum loses Ian and Andrew, who has not posted yet, have you banned him, it will be to the detriment of other forum members? Their vast knowledge of photographic information, and their willingness to share that knowledge freely, not through expensive courses, is a massive asset.
I'm now waiting for the traditional insults to my posts from here and our former colonies.
Vanman.

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