The way this Board is run

Your suggestions on how to improve the site and forums
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DJ
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by DJ » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:50 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

masch wrote:Otherwise, we are more than happy to accept DJ's generous offer to host us alongside his personal systems. This will, in future, as well as in the past, require the avoidance of image storage on the server. No surprise here.
Well, there's slightly more to it than this, so I thought I would share a little information with everyone on some of the issues one must deal with in hosting such things.

Firstly, as has been pointed out, embedding images into forum posts by linking images hosted on other sites has been available from the very beginning, is very easy to do, and should be the preferred method.

The issue of contention is regarding uploading images to the forum server to include into forum posts.

This has actually been available since 2009 and there are in excess of 450 images in the attachments folder which bear testament to this. However, there is a limit on the overall size of this area, and for very good reason.

Most forum sites do not allow unrestricted uploads of attachments, the reason for this is that once forum users upload files, they never delete them again. In some cases because they don't think to, in some because they haven't the access to do so. The end result of this is a perpetually increasing pool of files which continues to grow and grow, most of which will never be used or referenced again, and are very hard to administer. This pool of files counts towards the hosting account's disc space allowance, and also has to be backed up. When you upload an attachement to the server it is not saved with your filename but a very large reference number which has no meaning to anything but the board software, correlating attachments to posts is an untenable exercise. Unrestricted upload access like this gets out of hand very very quickly, and is then very difficult to do anything about after the fact. If you suddenly disable it and delete all your attachments, all the images disappear from your posts, and your posts make no sense.

One of the key benefits of our forum I believe is that we do not "prune" posts. Due to the nature of discourse in this community, it is to our significant advantage to keep all our posts as they contain useful information, advice and suggestions etc. and having them available for users to search is a significant boon. As this old-fashioned information is arguably already out of date to start with :mrgreen: it doesn't expire either, so it's handy to have around.

One of the ways we might be able to allow greater freedom in uploading attachments would to "prune" the Classifieds forum. The vast majority of all the uploaded attachments are images relating to posts in the Classified forum, pictures of equipment for sale. This forum more than any other is viable for "pruning" as the items are presumably sold and no longer available, and therefore the posts are mostly redundant. If our readership is happy for posts in this forum to be pruned to say, a 12 month window, I would expect this to free up some of the space allocated to attachments, enabling more uploads. How much I cannot know until we try.

When the board is moved I intend to increase this space anyway, but it will only last a short time before the exact same situation is reached. Pruning the Classifieds forum, whilst not being a solution to the problem, will mitigate it by a fair amount and make the space last a good deal longer.

So, are you happy to lose out-dated classifieds for a greater chance of upload?

Emmanuel Bigler
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Emmanuel Bigler » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:51 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

From Fourtoes:
Sounds good. Is that in Northern France or down South?

From Joanna:
Neither :wink: It's on the east coast, right next to the land-locked island of Switzerland

Sigh ! Not North, hence too far from Britain, not South, hence definitely not attractive to Britons, an average annual rainfall not better than Britain ... do not be surprised that Franche Comté is not even listed in many tourist guides I found across the Channel ...

However we do fabricate large format cameras in Franche Comté, this could be attractive to some eccentric people living on the other side of the Channel ...

Charles Twist
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Charles Twist » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:05 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Bonsoir Emmanuel,
I'll do you a trade: one or two of our eccentrics for some of your cheese. Interested?
Regards,
Charles

George Hart
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by George Hart » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:18 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Even for French cheese, that would be a good deal…

George

Nigels
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Nigels » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:31 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

To DJ:
I am more than happy for my images in the UKLFPG Gallery to be removed and replaced with a link to my "UKLFPG Workshops" set on Flickr if that makes things easier.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24301567@N ... 634160782/
Regs, Nigels.
[User of Ebony 45SU + 58, 80, 150 & 270 mm Lenses, and all the essential bits]
"He wears the sweeping landscape in the crystal of his eye."

Joanna Carter
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Joanna Carter » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:53 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Nigels wrote:I am more than happy for my images in the UKLFPG Gallery to be removed and replaced with a link to my "UKLFPG Workshops" set on Flickr if that makes things easier.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24301567@N ... 634160782/
Try clicking on the little globe icon under your name in any post; I've set it to point to that page. Is that OK?
Reassure yourself - stroke an Ebony

Peter B
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Peter B » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:54 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

One of the ways we might be able to allow greater freedom in uploading attachments would to "prune" the Classifieds forum. The vast majority of all the uploaded attachments are images relating to posts in the Classified forum, pictures of equipment for sale. This forum more than any other is viable for "pruning" as the items are presumably sold and no longer available, and therefore the posts are mostly redundant. If our readership is happy for posts in this forum to be pruned to say, a 12 month window, I would expect this to free up some of the space allocated to attachments, enabling more uploads. How much I cannot know until we try.
It has often struck me that many thousands of £s worth of gear gets sold here at no cost, and I wonder if it is worth copying the APUG model of asking for a 3% voluntary donation towards the site costs? This is way cheaper than selling through the auction site and it is left up to the seller whether he or she makes that contribution. :idea:

Sal Santamaura
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Sal Santamaura » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:11 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

masch wrote:...if anyone can tell me how QT pays for the hosting costs, I'd be very interested...
Server space is donated by Brian Reid. See this page:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/credits.html

Fourtoes
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Fourtoes » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:27 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Why on earth are we over complicating something....if its not broke dont fix it, for crying out loud people get a grip.

Joanna Carter
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by Joanna Carter » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:34 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Fourtoes wrote:Why on earth are we over complicating something....if its not broke dont fix it, for crying out loud people get a grip.
Thanks Tony.

Peter, we really don't want to get into having to handle and account for members money; we have enough trouble doing it all for free :shock: :?
Reassure yourself - stroke an Ebony

mpirie
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by mpirie » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:56 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

All,

Having watched this thread evolve and as a relative newcomer, i can't help but try to remind everyone of a few pointers.

If you don't like how the board is run, then please leave. If you do like it, then please stay!

Might i respectfully suggest that the main protagonists of this thread make an effort to get together and discuss options open for changes face to face if at all possible? We all know (and can see from this thread) how easy it is to misinterpret the written word compared to sitting face to face where nuances of the language can be detected and responded to appropriately.

I, for one, find this forum (and others) invaluable resources in my ongoing development in photography. What processes or mechanics i use to obtain my end result is between me, my bank manager and my maker.

Regardless of our views of the forum's foibles, lets not forget we all share a common interest which brought us all together in the first place - the desire the share or learn more about photography.

We should put aside any disagreements we have over the forum and pull together to the common benefit of Large Format Photography.

Heaven knows there are few enough LF photographers around as it is and I for one respect the right of everyone to harbour an opinion.

Respectfully to all,
Mike

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IanG
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by IanG » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:07 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Sal Santamaura wrote:
masch wrote:...if anyone can tell me how QT pays for the hosting costs, I'd be very interested...
Server space is donated by Brian Reid. See this page:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/credits.html

Ironically I could donate free server space, no bandwidth issues, no space issues, more databases etc etc. But the Admins of the site have no interest in moving the site forward.

Ian

masch
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by masch » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:38 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

IanG wrote: Ironically I could donate free server space, no bandwidth issues, no space issues, more databases etc etc. But the Admins of the site have no interest in moving the site forward.
With all due respect, but given your complete misunderstandings about the forum software, at this point I am skeptical about this.
You will also hopefully forgive if I'm not a particular fan of hosteurope. :?
For the moment, we will go with the space DJ is going to provide, which will resolve some of the SQL issues we had with the current space. This will also simplify modifications to the board software that DJ makes. If we run into serious problems, we can look again.

But to clarify once more: The decision about "moving the site forward" (whatever this is supposed to mean) is not yours to make. You can make suggestions, which we will consider. However, so far, the suggestions I have seen were limited to your disagreement to the colours on the forum, the size of avatar images, and your disagreement to a limitation to storing images on the server.

The first two are cosmetic issues , which you may or may not like. They are not a problem for most people. :roll:

I believe we have clarified the issues about image storage sufficiently. To repeat: There is no need to store images on the server. Inlining to Flickr, Photobucket or Dropbox or similar is more than sufficient, free and straightforward. Live with it.
This issue may be relaxed in the future, but no decision is going to be made in haste. Most forum boards I am a momber on do NOT store images locally, unless they charge a fee, or are part of a commercial operation and neither of that is likely going to happen here.

I still have to see anything constructive from you, beyond the above points (if they can be called constructive). They are answered, if not in the way you want. No need to rant on and on about them.

Marc
Real Photographers use METAL cameras.....
...and break their backs in the process... :)
http://homepage.mac.com/mjjs/Photography/

PAUL O
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by PAUL O » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:18 pm Etc/GMT-1+01:00

I suppose that I should chip in now! Been reading this with interest/amusement/disbelief in various doses :lol:

The whole ethos of this group is one of informality and when I "devised" the initial idea of the UKLFPG it was to host free workshops. The idea of a website was discussed following a couple of workshops and Marc was kind enough to sort a site out. He has never charged anything for this neither has any of the moderators for their time or expenses.

Although I have taken a back seat in this group I still consider myself the founder 8) and look back with fond memeories of the early days when LF was still something of a novelty in the UK .

I for one am VERY happy with the website and the choice of moderators. As far as "developing" the website I would argue this point - we should be developing the workshop side of the group?? We have over 700 mebers yet I remember the same (very)few faces who could be bothered to meet up at locations all over the UK. This lack of interest was the driving force behind my own loss of interest in the group. I don't think many of us realise how much behind-the-scenes legwork goes on in arranging a (free) workshop!!!!!!!!!

If people can't be bothered to make the physical effort to meet up and share the craft then this group will (has?) become a faceless cyber group.

Hmmmm ... enough said me thinks :?

gary mulder
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Re: The way this Board is run

Post by gary mulder » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:29 am Etc/GMT-1+01:00

Every group has it own cultural habits. Thats a nice thing. On this forum the majority seams to have a ebony and do there processing with a epson 750. So be it. On the german LF forum there are a lot of linhof owners how know more about optics than I have ever dreamed of. And so on.
As regular visitor of the UK I hop to run in to some members of UKLFPG. This is me on the beach of aldebrugh.

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