What About a Group Project for 2007

[Charles Twist]

I had never heard of Lulu. I should get out more - she seems a lovely girl. Seriously, it is amazing. What an incredible world we live in! I have no doubt everyone will take a look, but what it comes down to is that a hard back book with DJ, 150 pages thick, would cost £20 if we get 20 copies printed. That's a fair price compared to what you see in the shops. You have to be quite certain that you will like your fellow contributors' pictures, before forking out, I suppose. Who gets to decide which pictures should be included or excluded? As for a theme, how about something simple, yet vast and full of emotional connotation: "home"?
Charles

[Rob Lycett]

I'm not sure what the quality of print is like on LULU. I have a feeling it is OK for general book publishing but maybe not for high quality imagery. It might be worth spending £20 with a small test book to check the quality out.

A friend of mine was looking at LULU to print a digital art book recently and he has ditched the idea and gone with a litho printing company instead. I don't imagine the litho printer is going to be cheaper than LULU on a short run - so there must have been other considerations. I'll ask him monday and post the info.

OpenMute (http://www.openmute.org) in London also do this kind of print on demand. Mute is a publisher responsible for Mute Magazine (culture and politics after the net) so the print quality may be good.

This short run, print on demand publishing is done on digital printers, not litho. This means that single books can be printed (the print on demand bit) because there are no printing plates or films required.

There is also a digital direct to plate litho system that I've had some experience of in the past. It worked out cheaper than standard printing as there was no need for repro (ie film output) but the quality was not as good. This was 6 years ago so it has probably improved a lot.

All I'm really trying to say re LULU etc is check out the quality and there is bound to be a point where litho printing in larger runs is more economical.

The other thing about this kind of self publishing is scan quality. I've always seen a marked quality improvement in printed images when the scan has been done by a good repro house on a drum scanner by an operator that understands the medium. I'm not saying that your scanning skills are not good - from what I've seen on the forum, there is some excellent technical work being done. Another reason for a test print - an image that looks good on screen and prints well on a 6 colour piezo inkjet can still look off when printed litho etc.

I'm not trying to be negative, but I've seen enough print in the skip to send anyone white with fear.

[Paul Sanders]

I think it is great that we are able to bounce these ideas aree, I like the idea of reshooting Brandt!.

My thoughts are these:

1, whatever the project we decide on the idea is to promote us the Tea room apprecaition society (LFPUK) and what we do.

2, A magazine article is only a vehicle to get other photographers attracted to our site.

3 The main display should be an all singing and dancing gallery on our website

4 A book would be a great add-on. Fast Back Books and photobox do very nice very professional books via the web and they are very reasonable fast back will even do a little selling for you.

5, This project is something all members should try and participate in if they can, the range of ideas and talent that we have is enormous why restrict it to the workshops.

6, I agree a day is a little limiting and a longer term project would be quite a different challenge.

Perhaps what we need to do is see how the land lies with some magazines/publishers about this kind of project.

[chipper]

My feelings are that this is a superb idea, but we have to get it right. One day is for me, the nicest idea, but would only work if all (or nearly all) could partipate, and we could have some sort of guarantee that the weather wouldn't put the mockers on the whole thing, after what looks like being a big build up.
So a weekend, or possibly a week has to be favourite, at least for me, and please count me in. It would be great to get shots from as many different areas of the UK as possible.
Aside from the other previous suggestions, am I being a little naive to think that we might be able to get some sort of interest and or encouragement from Fuji UK in this venture?
Anyway, as I said, please count me in, and i'll be happy to assist what I think is going to turn out a great event, from the very bottom of the country, the Isle Of Wight. Stu.

[gari]

The LULU was a for instance rather than an endorsement, it was the self publishing part I was trying to float, the actual print process or publisher is a far off issue I would think, nice to see a few people think it is worth consideration.

In terms of numbers we have 117 registered users, if even half of the group chipped in as it were, we would have a 50 book run, some people may want more than one copy...

Still, we need to walk before we run I feel, we haven't finalised the theme for the project as yet or the timeframe in which to work.
I suggest we beat that out first.

Gari

[MAGNAchrom]

My original thought came in the form of One Day in Britain - where we pick a date and because we are all over the place take an image at soem point during the 24 hours anyone interested. I am sure we could talk nicely to Kieth at OP or even the BJp or AP magazines to see if any of them would like the idea - if no one else does it could make a graet gallery/slideshow for our site?

Well, I for one am very interested in your project -- I would be willing to commit either 8-12 "large" images or 16-24 "small" images in a future issue of MAGNAchrom. However, I also think it important to also have pictures of the PEOPLE doing the shooting as well as their photographs. For me, that is the real story. Let me know if publishing in MC is something the group would like to do. If so, we just need a date and a commitment!

[gari]

Thanks for the offer Micheal, I would be interested for sure. I am keen to submit work but was unsure I had the breadth of work to stand on its own at present, I would be more comfortable in a group submission at this time so this would be of great interest to me.

Like the mag by the way, hoping there is a way of getting a copy of the year end book/mag in the UK, any plans?


Well, there we go folks, who else is willing to commit themselves. I see this as an Ideal opportunity to advance the UKLFPF cause.

[Charles Twist]

The problems with the book idea are (i) if it is a short, private run, it only serves to satisfy us (ie no publicity); and (ii) I see the homogeneity of the scan quality as being a major issue, and possibly source of expense. I am not sure either that we will ever get enough pictures to do more than a booklet. What might serve the publicity side, is if we can get a national press mag (like OP) to follow our journey on the road to getting published. They know that stories like this sell. It might help if we have a publishing deal already in place, ie not a self-published run. More like what Steve Lewis did a couple years back with his Snowdonia book.
I would suggest some volunteer - Paul S? - collates the names of those who are interested and works out what can be achieved with that number. If the number is too few for a book and too many for a mag article, that will force a re-think, but at least it will focus our thinking. It may be we want to launch a couple projects so we get them published separately. It may be that, just as we have a few people dedicated to the workshop organisation or the website, we should have a PR team, regularly publicising our successes.
Over to you.
Charles

[Apple]

Thinking along the types of publication lines, would something like the "Best Of Friends" idea be more suitable. This was a Roger Maile publication one every so often giving a couple of pages to a number of photographers to put a few pictures in with a small article on who, why, how etc.

One thing to bear in mind if you're putting forawrd pictures for publication is the subject - my main interest has been cathedrals / churches and I've seen things where people have been nicked for publishing things they haven't paid professional rates to take... Unlikely to apply to outside pictures but with the attitude of the NT and others, you never know

[Dave Parkin]

I agree with Charles that the forum would benefit from a PR group to publicise its activities

Andrews reference to the Best of Friends publications reminded me that the publisher, "AREM" I think, used to publish photographic books by the likes of Kathy Harcom and Dave Butcher, these were based on monochrome photographs. They also used to publish a magazine entitled "Mono" which was basically a catalogue of their wares with an editorial and several articles on technique and a couple of contributions from photographers containing a few photos. This used to be published on a two monthly basis. They also used to offer a publishing service and an advice service for potential publishers (at a price I presume) I am not sure whether or not the organisation is still trading though.

In recent editions of OP and B+W there was a competition to have a book published. This was based on an outline of why the book was needed and who would buy it and what it would contain etc. Would this be an option if we were quick enough to get an entry in before the closing date if it has not already passed ?

Dave

[Steve Bell]

"Mono" which was basically a catalogue of their wares with an editorial and several articles on technique and a couple of contributions from photographers containing a few photos. This used to be published on a two monthly basis. They also used to offer a publishing service and an advice service for potential publishers (at a price I presume) I am not sure whether or not the organisation is still trading though.

Arem went into receivership.

[gari]

Dave, the problem with the book comp is that they are looking for a portfoilio in support of the written submission, about 20-30 images.

What say we decide on a subject and go for putting it in a gallery on the site, once there we have something we can promote around mag or book publishers etc.

I feel that we are in danger of discussing the pros and cons of this or that and overlooking the project bit. It would be much easier to "sell" the idea when it stands as a body of completed work that can be shown to picture editors, gallery owners/art directors.

As Charles says, it would be less stressful to chase work for our own site exhibit than 'cos one of the above is breathing down the project co-ordinators neck.
My pennies worth

Gari

[Charles Twist]

Yes, I agree with Gari. Let's find out how many and what type of pictures we come up with. That will also tell us how many people are truly prepared to commit to this project - those who can't be bothered getting to the finishing line in time have only themselves to blame. Gari: how do you propose that those without a scanner get their pics to the website?
Andrew: cathedral pictures are OK for non-commercial use. We just have to be careful you make no money out of them, ie include them in a book for us rather than for public display. A bit of creative accounting will take care of that, no?
Charles

[gari]

I am happy to do some scanning for folks that dont have access and/or dont care to send for commercial scanning, I am sure that there will be others willing to do the same? As a group I am confident we have both the collective gear and knowledge/expertise/experience to see a project such as this to fruition.

Andrew, I am a few miles from Iona Abbey and they are happy for me to shoot stuff that is not commercial as Charles has said, I have spoken to folks at the Abbey and they feel that it is a far easier matter to get permission for submission to a comp/exhibit than getting commercial release.

I would just like to request that we have a multi-day timeframe, 2 is fine, as were I live getting one hour of settled weather is a challenge let alone one day!!

Gari

[Dave Parkin]

Dave, the problem with the book comp is that they are looking for a portfoilio in support of the written submission, about 20-30 images.

What say we decide on a subject and go for putting it in a gallery on the site, once there we have something we can promote around mag or book publishers etc.

Thanks Gari, the book competition came along too early for it to be any use to the group although if it is to be an annual thing we might be able to give it further consideration in the future.

As the best of friends publication has gone by the wayside it might be a thought for the group to use a similar format ie a varied sample of pictures with a thumbnail at the back with technical details provided ie camera, lens, film stock (if applicable) etc.

This might make the subject matter a little easier to reach a consensus on.

A couple of suggestions for subject material:

As we are the UKLFF could we possibly do a day in the life of the UK - one specific day, longest day for example, weather might be more predictable and this would allow the use of portraits, landscapes, architecture, still lifes etc

What about a project to cover the coast of the UK?

Just a couple of thoughts for the melting pot

Dave