Jumping on the Jobo E6 bandwagon

[mikey]

Hi Dave,
I once emailed tetenal about the shelf life of unopened kits and was told it was two years from manufacture. You can tell when this was because the date of manufacture is incorporated in the batch numbers on the bottles. I don't have one to look at just now but as I recall its fairly evident from the number.

Regards,
Mike

[dave_whatever]

OK I'm almost at the point of crowbarring open my wallet to splash some cash on this whole idea.

One thing that still bugs me is this notion (that I don't seem to be able to find any substantial evidence for) that the 3-bath kits aren't as archival as 6 bath. But then I read talk of a stabiliaser as a final step remedying that. Is this something anyone else does, does it indeed come as standard with 3-bath kits? Someone put my mind at rest

P.S. I can't think about blix without thinking of the UN weapons inspector.....and Team America...

[gari]

I think basically that a 3 bath has some of the stages together, as in the bleach/fix.
I haven't had any issues though you could argue that 4 yerars isn't really long enough to be considered archival!!!

Wasn't the guy in Team America "Brix"?

Gari

Go on, you know you want too....

[dave_whatever]

Wasn't the guy in Team America "Brix"?

I berieve he was, if I recorrect correctry.

[dave_whatever]

Go on, you know you want too....

I have now ordered a processor...so if this ends up being a disadter I blame you guys and gals.

I notice reading the Jobo literature on their site they seem to recommend increased first dev times of 16% for Fuji films - does anyone follow this advice? I can only imagine that its implying that fuji E6 films otherwise come out about a half stop darker compared to Kodak. I can't see I've ever noticed this in practice with commercially developed film, who presumably use a standardised procedure/times for all films regardless of manufacture.

[Joanna Carter]

I notice reading the Jobo literature on their site they seem to recommend increased first dev times of 16% for Fuji films - does anyone follow this advice?

I use the times as listed on the chemistry pack, whether that be Tetenal or Fuji Hunt 3-bath - no problems and, what I would consider, perfect density.

[Dave Tolcher]

Oh dear, I suspect this gets into the great debate on whether old Velvia 50 should be rated at 50 asa or 40.... reason given was that the chemistry required it to be at 40 rather than the film speed was wrong.

[Joanna Carter]

Oh dear, I suspect this gets into the great debate on whether old Velvia 50 should be rated at 50 asa or 40.... reason given was that the chemistry required it to be at 40 rather than the film speed was wrong.

I think the problem with Velvia 50 is that it should be rated at 50 but with a very limited difference between the shadow exposure and the taking exposure - like 1/2 to 1 stop max.

[dave_whatever]

Oh dear, I suspect this gets into the great debate on whether old Velvia 50 should be rated at 50 asa or 40....

Indeed.

[Patrick Dixon]

So what tanks(s) do you need for the CPE2 & 4x5?

I have a 4x5 reel, but it doesn't have the baffles that Tim has on his video - will it fit in 1500 series tanks or do you have to buy 2500 series tanks? Are the tanks different diameters or something?

I appreciate that you can't use the Expert series tanks with the CPE2.

[dave_whatever]

The jobo site is a good resource to clarify things like this (looks like you need 2500 tanks for 4x5):

http://www.jobo.com/web/2500-Series-Tanks.337.0.html
http://www.jobo.com/web/1500-Series-Tanks.336.0.html

[dave_whatever]

OK ladies and gents, I now have in my hands a brand new 2509n reel, and 3 sheets of scrap film. I've been playing around with these for a while and it seems to me that aside from praying to every god under the sun there is no way to load 3 sheets into adjacent slots without the end edge of one sheet scraping across the emulsion side of another. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?

I'm beginning to see why people seem to favour just doing 4 sheets at once.......

[timparkin]

OK ladies and gents, I now have in my hands a brand new 2509n reel, and 3 sheets of scrap film. I've been playing around with these for a while and it seems to me that aside from praying to every god under the sun there is no way to load 3 sheets into adjacent slots without the end edge of one sheet scraping across the emulsion side of another. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?

I'm beginning to see why people seem to favour just doing 4 sheets at once.......

I've managed to load 6 sheets without any problems but I have been using the loader so I don't know if that makes a difference?

Tim

[dave_whatever]

I doubt the loader makes a difference, its not getting them in thats the issue, its just the path each one takes (whihc you can't do anything about once they're in the grooves) seems to inevitably lead to them touching because of the way the film takes a slight curve when loaded, but the sheet you're inserting lies flat until it gets about 2" into the slot. I've worked a way of loading them to minimise this but its still on the card. I'm hoping that a slight touch isn't worth worrying about since this reel presumably represents the pinnacle of german film-reel engineering.....

If you want to see what I mean, take 2 sheets. Load one by hand into the inner slot. Then load the second by hand into the middle slot, but pause once its about and inch in, turn the reel over and from the other side see if the far end of the first sheet, with its slight outward curve, runs along the sheet you're loading. I can hear them touching too on some occaisions. I do wonder if holding the reel at a particular angle makes it better/worse, I might have to further experiment with it.

[dave_whatever]

Quick update: last night I did my first 4 sheets in a CPE2. All seemed to go well, I now have 4 sheets of film all correctly exposed, about the right density, and no colour casts I can see. Not a great financial success at this stage as I estimate each sheet cost me about £75 to develop, but things can only get better in that area.....

I also learned a few things I though it might be worth sharing for posterity:

Firstly, the bath takes a long time to get up to temp, even putting warm water in it to start with! I think I need to use even hotter water next time. I can now see why people stick an aquarium pump in to circulate the water.

Generally this first developing session took a lot longer than I anticipated due to lack of familiarity and general disorganised bumbling. The whole thing from start to finish (getting to stuff out to packing it away and having film drying) took me about 3 hours to run off a single batch! I was not very popular with the missus when I finally relinquished my monopoly on the bathroom at 11:30pm. I hope to get a routine sorted out to get this time down somewhat.

This of course meant that I didn't run off a second or third batch with the same chemicals. I ended up putting cling film over the cylinders and stabiliser tray and hope I get time later this week to do a few more sheets. Does anyone know if when mixed chemicals pass their usable point does anything happen visually to them, i.e. colour changes, or do you have to just try them and see?

I also used the standard by-the-book fuji hunt times (6:30/6/6) at this stage, and a quick look at the slides this morning leads me to believe they are pretty much as I would expect in terms of dentisy.

One thing the Fuji pamphlet doesn't mention is about aerating the blix. Basically pouring it into and old pop bottle, shaking it around a bit then pouring it back into the cylinder before use. Apparently the blix needs to oxidisation to work properly. Is this something anyone else has picked up on?

All modern color process bleach or bleach-fix chemicals (with the exception of Ilfochrome bleach) requires oxygenation (exposure to oxygen) to perform its function properly and completely. Unlike developer or other chemistries, you should intentionally introduce air (with its oxygen) to the bleach or bleach-fix. Oxygenation is easily accomplished while diluting the stock solution. Place the bleach or bleach-fix in a larger (about twice the volume of the mixed solution) sealable container. Seal the container and shake vigorously for about thirty seconds.

There's also a few subtle differences in the times given on the jobo website and the times you get with the Fuji kit. Here's the main ones I saw if anyone has a wisdom to share:

Pre-Warm 5:00
First Developer 6:30 (All Fuji films only: use 7:30)
Rinse 3:00 (6x 0:30)
Color Developer 4:00
Rinse 1:00 (2x 0:30)
Bleach-Fix 6:00
Rinse 5:00 (10x 0:30)
Stabilizer 1:00 (Off processor at room temperature.)
Dry As needed

With all rinses, the number of changes of water is more important than the time. We suggest changing the water rinse every 30 seconds for the duration of the rinse time.

With my washes, I did the Fuji recommended 2:30 with one 30 second wash followed by two 1 minute washes to kind of hedge my bets compared to Tim's sequence.

I must also add at this point that I am greatly indebted to Tim Parkin and his blog for opening my eyes to this as a viable possibity, and producing the youtube videos etc. I probably owe you a pint Tim - say to the value of £2.60 and I'll throw in a bag of scampi fries.

Thanks to everyone else who's contributed to this and other threads on this subject, this has been a fantastic resource for me and I hope other people will find this thread handy.