Pre-viewing with digital or with instant film?

[brijphoto]

I am about to go on my first 10 day shoot with a lf, and wanted to get some advice on what option would work in making lf images. Should I spend a lot of extra cash on instant film to preview the images before shooting on a neg or should I just take my 5d along and use that to preview the exposure? If it makes any difference, I will be making environmental portrait (outside) and landscape images.

Any suggestions or thoughts would be welcome.

Cheers

[Joanna Carter]

Unless you know the exposure characteristics of the instant film, you will be in the same position as exposing the "proper" film. Even if the film is the same speed, it may not respond to the range of light in the same manner. B&W neg film has a range of 14 stops that can only be exploited by using Zone System techniques, colour neg film has more range than E6 film - how much range does the instant film have?

Likewise, a digital sensor has a different range to E6 film so, unless you only want to use the "preview" for framing purposes only, it is questionable just how much value using either mechanism will be, considering that a digital image is usually going to use a different focal length and framing format.

Don't forget that you have the ground glass screen, which gives you a precise "preview" of the framing and composition so, there is definitely no need use any other mechanism for framing or composition. The only real use for previewing is for exposure purposes which, I would argue is not really all that useful, unless you are already familiar with how your instant film of choice is going to behave.

There is enough experience of different films amongst readers of this forum to equip you with the knowledge of how your target film will expose. What film are you planning on using?

[dave_whatever]

I'd agree with the above. If you've got a spotmeter and a ground glass then you don't need anything else. Infact relying on digital/polaroids as a crutch could just be counterproductive, just another distraction. Keep it simple.

[Marizu]

Sometimes I use a digital camera preview if I'm working with flash. Particularly if I'm going 'strobist' with hot shoe flash and no modelling light.
This is just to get a better idea of the main lighting and shadows. Determining where they should sit on the film is done with a meter.

[Charles Twist]

You say that, Joanna, but you do use your dSLR to quickly survey a site and gauge which shots are the more likely winners, so that you can then record them properly on LF. This is both cheaper and faster, as you pointed out to me.
Given that Brijesh is relatively inexperienced with exposing, it might help him to confirm he is on the right tracks. It is time-consuming, but might be useful at first to obtain a computed mid value. He can then use his spot meter to check for highlights and shadows.
Best regards,
Charles

[Joanna Carter]

You say that, Joanna, but you do use your dSLR to quickly survey a site and gauge which shots are the more likely winners, so that you can then record them properly on LF. This is both cheaper and faster, as you pointed out to me.

OK, you got me there, but 1. I use Helen's Canon G10 'cos it's got a format closer to 5x4 and 2. I don't take any notice at all of the exposure.

Given that Brijesh is relatively inexperienced with exposing, it might help him to confirm he is on the right tracks. It is time-consuming, but might be useful at first to obtain a computed mid value. He can then use his spot meter to check for highlights and shadows

Agreed, but he really has to get to grips with the latitude and positioning of exposure values for the final choice of film. Having to use either instant film or digi will only serve to confuse, to my way of thinking.

[DJ]

You say that, Joanna, but you do use your dSLR to quickly survey a site and gauge which shots are the more likely winners

Joanna has a DSLR? I'm shocked!

There's two sides to this coin as I see it, yes having a viewfinder is a very useful compositional tool, and a digital camera of any sort can make an excellent viewfinder. Certainly it would help generate more "keepers" on such an outing. However, this is Brijesh's first time out with a Large Format camera, there is some value IMHO of not having such useful tools in the beginning as they will be distraction to learning the LF camera. You'll probably have less "keepers" that way, but you will learn more. Conversely having less "keepers" from such a trip is not as encouraging. As with everything, it's a compromise.

Brijesh should think about what he wants to achieve from the trip, if "getting the shot" is the ultimate goal and getting the most return possible from the time in terms of usable images, use whatever tools are available. If immersing himself in the practice of using the LF camera, embracing the fact it slows down your process and forces you to consider everything (as we all know it does), then perhaps leave the DSLR at home. Take a cardboard cutout frame for composition tests.

I'm not against the idea of using the DSLR for a viewfinder and compositional tool, I've done it myself, but I wonder what Brijesh most hopes to achieve from his trip, and that, only he can answer. A question worthy of consideration IMHO.

I suspect the winding down effect of a ground glass and rack-n-pinion focusing will be almost therapeutic.

[jennym]

I have never used instant film, but find a digital compact useful for comparing possible compositions. I have also had to rely on my 5D for metering when my spotmeter stopped working. It does work, but I much prefer a spotmeter! Whatever method you decide to use for metering, I suggest you see how it works for you before you head out on a 10 day trip.

[brijphoto]

Thanks a lot for all the postings.

I am planning to use Kodak nc 160, rated at 100iso.
I will be shooting portrait and landscape images and in the 10 days I have, I only want to walk away with 10 landscapes and 10 portraits that would form the beginning of a new project and a new working method (i.e. lf work). I am prepared to work slow...and shoot early morning and early evening times of the day due to heat and contrast lighting in the middle of the day in India making working conditions impossible.
I am not planning to use the digital for composition at all. I am quite comfortable with the ground glass...it was not as difficult as I had imagined it to be. I am more worried about my exposure and hence the use of digital slr.
I guess I need to become familiar with the characteristics of the film and keep that in mind when making exposure.

[Joanna Carter]

I am prepared to work slow...and shoot early morning and early evening times of the day due to heat and contrast lighting in the middle of the day in India making working conditions impossible.

If heat is likely to be a problem, you might like to consider getting hold of a small insulated box to keep your film in, maybe inserting a freezer pack overnight to keep the film temperature down.

As for contrast, you may be surprised how low the contrast can appear to the film. I found, in the south-west of France, the light would reflect off the side of buildings, illuminating shadows and reducing the effective contrast. I haven't used colour neg film yet (others will confirm the latitude of NC160) but I would guess you should have around 6 stops from shadow detail to highlight detail. This is similar to Fuji Astia transparency film, with which I have good success, even in almost Mediterranean light. However, You should not rate the film at anything other than its recommended speed of ISO 160; there simply is no need if you determine the correct exposure range and offset from "average" exposure to shadow and highlight points.

[dave_whatever]

If heat is likely to be a problem, you might like to consider getting hold of a small insulated box to keep your film in, maybe inserting a freezer pack overnight to keep the film temperature down.

Is this really necessary? My encounter with shooting cold film is that it can pop mid exposure. And this wasn't even in temps as extreme as india, this was british summer dusk.

[Joanna Carter]

Is this really necessary? My encounter with shooting cold film is that it can pop mid exposure. And this wasn't even in temps as extreme as india, this was british summer dusk.

My thought was not to make the film cold, just to keep it at less than 24°C and more that you could encounter in warmer climes.

[hmvmanuk]

Brijphoto, I would definitely advocate learning to use a separate meter plus your own judgement about the desired look of the photo to gauge exposure. I've never found that using a DSLR works very well for me (based on experiences with medium format film.) Remember also that you may need to compensate for any discrepancies in shutter speeds & apertures etc. depending on the lenses you'll be using so some experience of your own particular equipment is necessary.

If you do have time before your trip, perhaps you could experiment with a 35mm camera to save on the cost of LF sheets but I think it would be worth also experimenting with a few sheets as well.

Good luck,

Gavin

[Marizu]

I think that Joanna's estimate for the dynamic range of colour neg film is a little conservative. I haven't used kodak but I'm sure that you can get 9 or so stops from Fuji Pro160. It's quite common practice to give colour neg more exposure.
The main thing with neg filM is not to underexpose it (colour or b&w).
I never had much luck with a digital camera meter on MF, either. A DSLR meter is probably working with a 5 or 6 stop dynamic range and for some reason, my negs tended to be underexposed.
If you're going to use a DSLR meter then I'd practice with it first but maybe on 35mm as suggested. I would also try giving one stop and then two stops more exposure than the DSLR recommends.
Bear in mind that I like to print on an enlarger but I do scan some of the colour stuff. A scanner can do a slightly better job of pulling information out of the shadows. I think I recall Joanna telling me about getting shadow detail from zone 1 or 2 using a scanner.

[Marc Wilson]

In terms of exposure, for the portraits especially, my recommendation is to get your readings using a grey card and a spot meter...works every time.
In fact I also use it for my documentary landscapes as it gives me a great overall reading for most lighting situations.
It may not be as precise a system as a zone system or similar but it gives me a very realistic rendering onto film of the scene I see in front of me, and well exposed negs that are great to drum scan and then print....and is quick and easy and a piece of grey card is always a good conversation starter!

As for framing I do often like to use my compact as it gives me a chance to then sit down, look at some angle options etc etc, breathe a little and then set up and frame to perfection with the large ground glass and small rise and shift...but then I'm shifting to mf for my current project now so...

Marc