Printer economics - have I got this right?

[David Evans]

I've been planning on getting a decent printer, and had narrowed my choice down to either an Epson R2880, or possibly a Canon Pixma 9500, or as an outside choice a HP Photosmart B9180.
All A3+ and use pigment ink.
All similar price range also.
What I wanted to work out was the relative price of ink, and this is what I found.
All three printers take ink cartridges holding around 11ml and costing between £9 and £14 mark street price, so working out at something around £1,000 a litre - YES!!
Looking at the Epson in particular, the R2880 takes 8 ink cartridges (11.4ml), and these can be bought for £9.27 from Jigsaw, so printer purchase price of £527 (again Jigsaw) includes £74 of inks, giving a printer hardware price of £453.
Out of curiosity I then looked at the Epson R3880 and this takes nine 80ml ink cartridges, at a price of around £45 each, though you can buy a complete set of nine colours for £374 from Calumet. So nine cartridges (720ml) works out at £520 a litre. The R3880 is £939 from DPS Business (haven't got a Jigsaw price), so take away the ink and the hardware cost is £565.
The R3880 hardware is just £112 more than the R2880. Something like half way through your second lot of ink cartridges onwards, and your ahead price wise with the R3880.
What about going further and looking at the Epson R4880? £1,849 at Warehouse Express, and I think comes with nine cartridges 110ml size, which retail for £42.75 at Jigsaw, so hardware cost is £1,465. Ink in the 110ml size is £390 a litre, but you can also get 220ml cartridges for £68, so £310 a litre.
You have to go through quite a bit of ink before you are ahead buying the R4880 over the R3880. In any case I haven't got room for the R4880!
So, have I got my sums right, or am I misinterpreting something fundamental?
Would I be right in concluding that the the R3880 is comparatively the best value, as well as being a great printer?

[DJ]

Shhh, don't tell everyone....

Yes, the cost of ink when buying the larger cartridges is significantly cheaper, if you can suffer the initial cost of buying the printer. Buying new ink cartridges does sting the wallet, especially when more than one go at once, but they do last a long time. Also, the build quality on the "larger" printers is noticeably higher than the "consumer" ones, the Pro ones are also linearized on the production line (48xx and up) so they are consistent, whereas the consumer ones allegedly are not.

I had an Epson 4000 in the past, and currently have a 7880, which I purchased for less than £2000 when it was on sale, brand new, I don't regret either one. I don't print that much, but I like making big prints, if I was printing regularly, it would be a no-brainer, it will pay for itself in no time.

If you can take the hit of the cost of a 3880 in one go, as opposed to a 2880 then 7 sets of cartridges over time, I would thoroughly recommend it. The 3880 is an excellent printer, I'm sure you would be very pleased with it, and of course you'd have the ability to do A2 prints as opposed to just A3.

[timparkin]

Shhh, don't tell everyone....

Yes, the cost of ink when buying the larger cartridges is significantly cheaper, if you can suffer the initial cost of buying the printer. Buying new ink cartridges does sting the wallet, especially when more than one go at once, but they do last a long time. Also, the build quality on the "larger" printers is noticeably higher than the "consumer" ones, the Pro ones are also linearized on the production line (48xx and up) so they are consistent, whereas the consumer ones allegedly are not.

I had an Epson 4000 in the past, and currently have a 7880, which I purchased for less than £2000 when it was on sale, brand new, I don't regret either one. I don't print that much, but I like making big prints, if I was printing regularly, it would be a no-brainer, it will pay for itself in no time.

If you can take the hit of the cost of a 3880 in one go, as opposed to a 2880 then 7 sets of cartridges over time, I would thoroughly recommend it. The 3880 is an excellent printer, I'm sure you would be very pleased with it, and of course you'd have the ability to do A2 prints as opposed to just A3.

Wot he said - the 3880 is the absolute bargain in the printing world at the moment as far as I can tell... pro features and consumable costs at a reasonable initial outlay

[numnutz]

The HP Photosmart Pro 9180 is a very good printer unfortunately it suffers from bad software. I have never managed to print a PDF file from mine from within Acrobat I have to print it through Photoshop. Word refuses to use the special media tray and other odd niggles. Cartridges range from £18.00 to over £40.00 different colours can have different prices, Why I don't know.

It has now been discontinued so you may pick up one cheap somewhere just make sure you get the 3 year HP replacement warranty with it in case of problems.

nn

[Thingy]

Buying cheaper printers that take small cartridges is definitely a NO NO! I made that mistake with my last 3 printers

Better to pay more upfront for the printer and have larger volume cartridges. The cheap printers are sold below cost price to the manufacturer because they make up their loss with the exorbitant price of their cartridges.

I'm agonising between getting an Epson 3880 or 4880. I want the best, most accurate reproduction of greens and blues and the reds to look red (not orange )

[DJ]

I'm agonising between getting an Epson 3880 or 4880. I want the best, most accurate reproduction of greens and blues and the reds to look red (not orange )

I probably shouldn't tell you that Epson just announced the 4900 at Photokina then.... with the new TFP head and the new Ultrachrome HDR inkset (11 inks including green, orange and switchable black)....

In terms of inks, the 3880 and 4880 use the same ink (Ultrachrome K3VM), so there won't be any difference in gamut really, but I think the 3880 uses the newer style head, plus can switch easily from matte->gloss black, whereas this is an expensive proposition with the 4880...

I had a 4000 which is the same chassis as the 4880, they're built like tanks and a real workhorse, but if you don't need the roll-paper facility.... 3880 is a good choice.

There are currently offers on for Epson printers as they've just announced new models, also available are a 7890 and 9890 which are based on the 7900/9900 chassis but use UC-K3VM inks instead of UC-HDR inks.

[Marizu]

Are the ink cartridges that come with these printers full or are they half full 'starter' cartridges?

[DJ]

This is a point of some contention and to my knowledge has never been confirmed one way or the other.

My feeling is that they are full cartridges, however, when you install them, the system must be "primed", which in the case of the Pro level printers means filling long ink lines (the tubes going from cartridge to print head) and the head primed by putting ink through it.

These ink lines hold quite a lot of ink, plus a fair bit is flushed through the head when priming it, and by the time this process is finished and you're ready to make your first print, your new cartridges with be about 30% full. I believe this is why people think the shipped cartridges are not "full" ones. You have to remember you still have all the ink in those tubes though.

[TimH]

I have a 3800 - in fact its over a year old and I'm just starting on some second cartridges. The printer is the dogs ! - it uses VERY little ink in cleaning etc to the point its largely not measureable esp in an 80 ml cartridge.
Yes the initial 'load' of the printer from new out of the box uses considerable ink tho' from what can remember there was nearer 70% LEFT - not used in the process. As the 3880 is essentially the same beast i guess the consumption to prime will be very similar.

regards Tim....

[AbsolutelyN]

On printer economics has anyone worked out how many prints you need to be producing to break even on getting a lab to do the print? I'd love one of these printers but with the cost of printer, paper and ink it just doesn't seem viable to me when printing a fairly small number of prints per year. Plus with printer technology moving quickly it would feel as though any printer bought today is outdated in a year or so just like with digital cameras. I've stayed clear of printers because of this, am I missing something?

[timparkin]

I'd have a guess at a few figures based on..

Printer replacement at about 4 years (to keep up with top end printers at pro house)
Printing 16x20's

I would estimate that the paper and ink costs from a single print being about £5 and that for most prints, a printer would run off at least two (some in just one but others three or four). Hence a single print would be about £10

You then need to mess around with profiling (I suppose) which will add another few hundred pounds in equipment and runs..

So let's say 2,000 for printer and profiling etc - amortised over four years = £500 per year.. +£10 per print

Digital Lab print using a lightjet on fuji pearl for £20.

In order to make the inkjet pay for itself, you would have to print 50 prints to start making a saving.. However, I've found quite a few places that will print epson at 16x20 for £15 in which case you would have to print 200 prints per year to break even and a good 300 if you want to save money I imagine..

My impression is that you have your own printer to have more control rather than to save money (unless you are making a substantial number of fine art prints per year)

For the record, I own a 4800 which I will never save money on and I also prefer the look of digital c-type prints

Tim

[AbsolutelyN]

Thanks Tim, appreciated. Totally understand the control aspect and would love to indulge in that. However I'll be sticking with my lab prints as unless you can (at the very least) break even in print sales it seems a very expensive route.

[timparkin]

Thanks Tim, appreciated. Totally understand the control aspect and would love to indulge in that. However I'll be sticking with my lab prints as unless you can (at the very least) break even in print sales it seems a very expensive route.

I totally agree - I bought a printer when I could afford it and am happy to create some prints but my best pictures will be going to digital lab for c-types.

I think the best bet is a 2880 (possibly 3880?) for your own proof printing purposes (and for some end use prints) which you can then send to a pro lab as a references. This sounds like the best balance of proofing, some end use and finally get 'custom choice' printing at any size shape or form from a pro printers.. If you start to produce large numbers of specific sizes as inkjets then invest in an appropriate printer based on proper accounting calculations.

Or is that too sensible..

Tim