10x8 Wide Angle Lens Recommendations

[John Hamlen]

Starting to build an 8x10 system and am looking for a wide angle lens which can cover (or almost cover 10x8), is manageable (in terms of weight & expense), and for which the front filter thread is vaguely standard. So far my research has turned up this list of possible candidates.

Any ones I have missed, personal lens recommendations, and any top tips on the best places to sources these bits of glass will be gratefully received.

Many thanks
John

[Edit: Thanks to everyone for their really helpful additions, contributions and recommendations. The "short" list has now gotten rather long(!) so I've rationalised things a bit by putting stars next to those with ICs over 350mm (to allow for movements) and removing those with focal lengths > 210mm (as I'm really after a genuine WA to start with).

Model - Focal Length - Max Aperture - Image Circle - Front Filter Thread
Nikkor SW 120 f/8 312 77 (Thanks AbsolutelyN)
*** Nikkor SW 150 f/8 400 95
*** Super-Symmar XL 150 f/5.6 386 95
*** Grandagon N 155 f/6.8 382 105
Fujinon CM-W 210 f/5.6 309 67
APO-Sironar S 210 f/5.6 316 72
*** Apo-Sironar-W 210 f/5.6 352 100 (Thanks George)
APO-Symmar 210 f/5.6 305 72

[AbsolutelyN]

Nikon 120mm SW f/8 - 312mm image circle at f/22 and 77mm filter thread. A little on the heavy side but one of my favourite lenses. I think the Schneider Super Angulon 121mm + 120mm f/8 lenses might just about cover it too (not certain). I've seen one or two them so quite cheap on ebay.

[John Hamlen]

Thanks for the recommendation AbsolutelyN. Don't know how I missed that one. I have now edited the previous post to add it to my list. I've just looked up the 120 and 121 Super Angulons and their coverage seems to be only 288mm which is probably cutting it a bit fine.

Are you using the Nikkor on 8x10? If so, I'd be interested in hearing what is your experience with the coverage of "only" 312mm. I guess (ignoring the fact that 8x10 is less than 8x10 when in the film holder) that Pythagoras would claim that the image circle is too small. Cheers, John

[Charles Twist]

There's also a Fujinon 120mm f/8 identical in size and (I believe) optics to the Nikon. Less well known, harder to find but cheaper than its hyped twin. There's not much information on it and I have seen references to it as a 125mm every now and then.
Regards,
Charles

[John Hamlen]

Thanks Charles. Another lens that has flown under my radar! Maybe it is because of the supposedly (see below) image circle. I found a post on LFPF (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ ... hp?t=33981) that gave the following head-to-head :
Nikkor 120/8 SW vs.Fujinon 120/8 SW
The nikkor has a larger image-circle; 312mm vs 280mm @f22.
The nikkor is lighter; 585g vs. 745g.
The nikkor takes smaller filters; 77mm vs. 82mm.
The nikkor is cheaper; 775$ vs. 1225$.
He had a 4x5 so I guess that the image circle thing wasn't so much of an issue.
Thanks again, John

[IanG]

If weight's an issue there's the tiny Zeiss f18 151mm Protar or the Ross f16 151mm WA Protar often found as an AM (Air Ministry lens) these cover 10x8 and weigh less than 100gm

Ian

[George Hart]

John, another lens that you might include is the Apo-Sironar-W 210/5.6, image circle 352 mm. It is no longer made but it comes up second-hand. Copal 3 shutter, so heavy. The -W lenses were a limited range that were initially called just "Apo-Sironar", and are similar in design to the -N and -S series, but with an extra element on the front to give wider coverage.

The gentle wide-angle focal length illustrates one of the main problems with the 10x8 format, in that if you want what is available for less in the smaller formats, ie good movement range etc, then the available range is limited and/or expensive and/or heavy.

If you must have 10x8 then so be it. FWIW, I'm content with 5x7…

George

[Charles Twist]

Hello John,
Strangely, my Fujinon also has a 77mm filter thread. There seems to be a bit of confusion about what Fuji actually made - over focal length and filter thread - and information is scarce. I have also read that Fuji were more conservative than Nikon with their image circle calculations, with IC being about image degradation (where do you set the boundary?) as much as light loss. If anyone has a more complete story, I'd love to hear.
There is also something like a 165mm Angulon around.
Regards,
Charles

[patawauke]

Check out the Kerry Thalmann listings of all the Fuji lenses on the LFF forum home page. They are also covered extensively in the View Camera mag archives.

[Charles Twist]

Hello Patawauke,
I am not sure which page you refer to exactly, but if you look at this one or this one or even this other one this one from Ebony, there is no reference to a 120mm SW by Fuji. Clearly there a few out there. And now it seems the filter thread diameter varies - although in reality I think the larger size refers to the 125mm not to the 120mm.
Regards,
Charles

[John Hamlen]

Thanks Ian. I had no idea that LF lenses existed below 100g!
I imagine that one would need a VERY dark dark cloth and better eyes than mine in order to focus a wide angle f18
In truth, lens weight isn't so much of an issue (I hope) as I plan to make most photos in an urban environment. So as long as I can lug everything by public transport, and the camera body isn't too heavy to hoist onto the tripod without dropping the thing...
Cheers John.

If weight's an issue there's the tiny Zeiss f18 151mm Protar or the Ross f16 151mm WA Protar often found as an AM (Air Ministry lens) these cover 10x8 and weigh less than 100gm

Ian

[IanG]

Surprisingly John my Ross f16 151mm Protar is easy to focus on my Agfa Ansco 10x8 even with a plain screen, I think the larger format helps although I changed to using a new Beattie screen which came with the camera (boxed & unused). Compared to my 165mm Super Angulon it's like a feather instead of a lead ballast weight

I'm not suggesting that a vintage WA Protar is the best option rather that there are alternatives to modern bulky WA's for 10x8 cameras and there are some excellent coated post WWII options available particularly from the US, Ross, TTH (Cooke) etc.

Ian

[John Hamlen]

Thanks George. I have added it to the list post. I think the reason I originally discounted it was the 100mm front filter thread and Lee only seems to do 95 and 105 adaptor rings as standard. Though very happy to be proved wrong as this lens looks lovely! http://www.leefilters.com/camera/produc ... currentTab:

Yes, I agree. It is like the "Cheap, Fast, Reliable - Pick any two" maxim for cars.

Unfortunately it does have to be 10x8 for what I'm planning to do (contact prints and "in-camera" work). Though I was almost tempted by a very nice and reasonably priced 5x7 yesterday at Photographica, but seeing as I've only just talked myself down from 11x14, this would be a step too far for me at the moment!

Cheers, John

John, another lens that you might include is the Apo-Sironar-W 210/5.6, image circle 352 mm. It is no longer made but it comes up second-hand. Copal 3 shutter, so heavy. The -W lenses were a limited range that were initially called just "Apo-Sironar", and are similar in design to the -N and -S series, but with an extra element on the front to give wider coverage.

The gentle wide-angle focal length illustrates one of the main problems with the 10x8 format, in that if you want what is available for less in the smaller formats, ie good movement range etc, then the available range is limited and/or expensive and/or heavy.

If you must have 10x8 then so be it. FWIW, I'm content with 5x7…

George

[John Hamlen]

LOL - Thanks for the top tip Ian. Damn, this is going to make things harder . How do you find the focusing "experience" compares between the Protar and the SA? Cheers, John

Surprisingly John my Ross f16 151mm Protar is easy to focus on my Agfa Ansco 10x8 even with a plain screen, I think the larger format helps although I changed to using a new Beattie screen which came with the camera (boxed & unused). Compared to my 165mm Super Angulon it's like a feather instead of a lead ballast weight

I'm not suggesting that a vintage WA Protar is the best option rather that there are alternatives to modern bulky WA's for 10x8 cameras and there are some excellent coated post WWII options available particularly from the US, Ross, TTH (Cooke) etc.

Ian

[Thingy]

Have you considered a Cooke Series XVa Triple Convertable? It costs the same as the PS945. Incidentally you can use the PS945 with 5x7, just. The PS945 is much lighter in weight than some of my modern Wide Angle lenses!

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/products/xva.html