In-camera positives using Ambrotypes and Tintypes

[John Hamlen]

I've quoted Lucy Telford's post below from the New Members forum because the discussion will have much broader interest. Have got a real interest in in-camera positives so wanted to throw out some more general and specific (to Lucy) questions here to set the ball rolling:

1) Lucy, what was the course that you went on? It sounds fascinating!
2) Do any other forum members have ambrotype and tintype experience? How how did you get on?
3) Any recommended suppliers for the glass and tin plates?
4) Can they be produced on a dry plate? I think a portable darkroom will be a step too far for me! I have seen tintype "recipes" online talking about allowing the plate to dry before exposure, but other sites describing them both as "wet plate" processes
5) Are 8x10 holders readily available to accommodate glass plates, or the glass/tin plate sandwich that Lucy describes below.

Cheers, John

Hi John,
Well - it depends on what camera you are using of course and whether you are making ambrotypes (using glass) or tintypes (using aluminium). The glass used is normally either 2 or 3mm although I haven't used glass yet. The aluminium is all-round easier as there is no prepping involved. For my Speed Graphic I have some old MPP holders which double up as either film holders OR plate holders. There is an insert which can be taken out and you can then put your thin aluminium plate in no problem. On the course I did some of the 8 x 10 cameras had these really good plate holders which could be adapted to take different sized glass or tin simply by putting different inserts in. All you had to remember was to use a glass backing plate if you were using tin to keep the tin flat and stop it bowing.

Glad you have the book

And, yes, we only made positives - you're right that it's lovely to have THE picture that you took, a unique one-off object.

There's a world of possibilities once you start on the LF adventure it seems!

[Neil Barnes]

I made anthotypes years ago - but outside the camera; they take three days or so to expose... here's a recipe from 1923. There may be a certain amount of tongue-in-cheek...

But I would certainly be interested in positive in-camera processes. I could drag those ancient brass lenses out of the attic.

Neil

[John Hamlen]

LOL - Where is that from?

[Dave Parkin]

John

I have had a bash at both ambrotypes and tintypes. John Brewer , a member of this forum, offers a two day workshop which takes you through the process from start to finish. I recently attended one of his workshops in Manchester and would say that it was money well spent. The opportunity to produce a variety of plates both on glass and aluminium provided a very good learning experience and the tips and advice given over the two days gave me the confidence to start producing my own plates at home.

I have adapted a 5x4 DDS to take either a 2mm glass plate or a sheet of trophy aluminium at quarterplate size. This was a fairly simple process, explained by John, or by making use of diagrams/pictures available on the internet. I presume that this could be scaled up for larger sized plates

Dave

[John Hamlen]

Thanks Dave.
I have now posted an enquiry at http://www.johnbrewerphotography.com

Are there advantages of using them as a wet, rather than dry plate process? I like the idea of dry plate ambrotypes to avoid the need for a mobile darkroom. However, I'm thinking that there might be more disadvantages than just speed as indicated here:
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum42/2776 ... plate.html
Cheers, John

[Lucy Telford]

Hi all,
Thanks for staring this new thread John, I'm glad you're so interested
For starters, the course I did was with Carl Radford http://www.carls-gallery.co.uk/index.html and I did the course at his home in Glasgow as it was nice and handy for me. He is running another course in the Lake District in July. Carl was absolutely brilliant - I suspect he's probably a member of this forum but that's not why I'm saying it! He was patient and thorough and it was an excellent weekend. I came away feeling enthusiastic about and confident about making my own plates at home, and you can't expect more than that.
I have no knowledge of the dry plate technique although just from reading it sounds trickier than wet plate.
Carl gives his students links to John Brewer for chemicals and the silver bath required and also to a company who will supply the trophy aluminium cut to your size specifications.
You can get 8 x a0 plate holders just for glass for sure. The glass you can get easily from any framing company I guess.

I hope that helps?

[Neil Barnes]

John, Amateur Photographer and Photography, Jan 1923.

*Correction* 'The Walrus' was W L F Wastell, president of the RPS: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/resu ... magepos=17

Ward Muir wrote under the pseudonym 'The Bandit'.

Neil

[John Brewer]

Hello everyone

As Dave has said I do run regular two day workshops from my studio in Manchester. I've just got back from Paris so haven't replied to everyone who has contacted me regarding workshops yet but I will in a day or so and will put up dates on my website.

To answer some of the questions posted above:

Yes wetplate does need a darkroom of some description at the place of shooting. However you can make a portable darkbox out of a large triple walled cardboard box and use some curtain blackout as a shroud.

You can adapt modern film holders to take plates by cutting the septum with a hacksaw. Other options are to use old mpp plate holders as mentioned above or there are a couple of guys who make bespoke plate holders in the US. However they are expensive and you'll have to pay import duty on top of the price! Another alternative is to buy an old wooden camera with a wooden plateholder. The last option is to use an old box Brownie. Box Brownies come in all shapes and sizes, large, small, short rectangle and almost panoramic rectangle.

I do sell everything needed chemical wise as well as silverboxes. This came about when Carl and I needed to set up for the workshop we were taught on by the American wetplate and platinum artist Kerik Kouklis. It took us nearly a year to source the chemistry. Silverboxes can also be bought from two or thee other guys in the US.

So why wetplate as opposed to dryplate or come to think of it film when it's so awkward with a portable darkroom and a short period of time to pour expose dev and fix? You really need to see an image in your hands, ask those LFers above who've been on a workshop with Carl or me. Actually it's not that a difficult process but their are some constraints; the image is reversed and the exposures run into seconds sometimes minutes. These though are things to embrace in my opinion, portraits for example seem to steal the soul as a sitter can't contrive an expression such as a smile. Many people like their wetplate portraits but don't know why when generally they don't like their portraits normally. Why? Because their image is reversed, just how they see themselves several times a day in a mirror or other refections.

I'm rambling.

If ten of you want to know more and can get to Manchester I'd be happy to run a demo with my studio partner Tony. We'll take a portrait of as many of you as we can, ten should be fine over a few hours, just for fun, no charge. Be warned, it's infectious!

John

[Fourtoes]

Guess I've been roped in then.

Wetplate is really addictive if you go down that road. Its really got me back into photography for myself rather than photography for work.

Johns courses are well worth the money and he's a mine of information.

[John Hamlen]

Sorry for the radio silence.

Gosh John - thanks for such a mountain of info, and the generous offer of setting up a free demo session. As Manchester is a significant journey for me I think I will keep my powder dry and wait for a place on one of your longer, paid workshops.

I feel that I will be heading down the dry-plate route but it will be worth it even if just for the septum hacking tips! And the addictive enjoyment of course.

[Neil Barnes]

Should such a demonstration happen, I have a small number of wooden dark slides intended for glass plates, for both quarter plate and 4x5, which I would be happy to share on the occasion.

Neil

[John Hamlen]

Excellent Neil.
I don't suppose they had any 8x10 plate holders for sale where you sourced your more sensibly proportioned examples did they?

[Neil Barnes]

Regrettably, no; the quarter plate I inherited (a lovely clause in my godfather's will: 'all items of a scientific, technical, optical, or photographic nature') and the 4x5 are the ones that I purchase thirty years ago with the MPP press camera, and which I used with home-made film adaptors until I was rich enough to afford Fidelity holders.

Neil

[John Hamlen]

Thanks a shame. Back to me building the time machine then....

[Andrew Plume]

Excellent Neil.
I don't suppose they had any 8x10 plate holders for sale where you sourced your more sensibly proportioned examples did they?

Hi John

I'm sending you a pm

regards

andrew