Thinking of jumping into LF

[Julian Elliott]

Evening all

As I said in my intro, I'm "thinking" about making the leap and wondering if it is worth it.

Now, when I bought my Hasselblad I did wonder if I should have instead bought a large format camera instead. When I was talking to Joanna earlier I said I know my photography from A to M. M being Medium Format.

In reality, the MF is basically the same as having an SLR. It's just bigger!

However, LF has the attraction of camera movements and the ability to correct verticals as standard rather than specialized.

I would love something like an Ebony 45S but for the moment that is way out of my range. Although, if I sold the MF gear then I could get nearish. But I'm kind of reluctant to sell it.

Lately, I did discover that I could add on a roll film back to a LF camera to give me back 6x6 or even have 12x6 on a 5x4 camera.

Lastly, film stocks worry me on LF. Quickload has already gone. Is the rest likely to follow?

If you had not much cash to play with, what are the options?

[Marizu]

L comes before M

It depends what you want to take pictures of.
That probably sounds a bit strange but my interest in portraiture probably precludes some of the beautiful Ebony cameras because I like to shoot with long(ish) lenses and a field camera bellows probably wouldn't stretch to that.
For architecture, you might need relatively big coverage from your lenses.

My advice would be to buy something 5x4 relatively cheaply so that you can try it out and see how (if) it limits you. Then you will know what kind of facilities/movements you want from your camera so you can sell it and get something more appropriate. Most cameras are compromises in some way or other. The ones that aren't tend to weigh a lot.

Figure out your whole process from film loading, processing, scanning and/or optical enlarging and make sure that you've got it all budgeted for before getting a camera.

I don't see a huge issue with film production. There are a large variety of emulsions in B&W and a comprehensive array of colour options.
Come the zombie apocalypse, you can shoot wet plate.

[IanG]

There's a mini workshop planned in the Midlands next month so pop along. There will be a very wide range of 5x4 cameras available to try first hand - from Speed Graphics to Monorails, Wooden Field cameras to metal technical cameras.

I wouldn't worry about Quickloads they were never mainstream and came & went with some of us die hard LF users barely noticing Quite frankly they were a pain in the arse, more expensive, harder to handle for processing and had few good points. OK they were light but you had to carry a heavier holder, I used the Polaroid veriosn (Fuji 100D) from their release but carrying darkslides has never been a major issue and I do a lot of backpacking.

Ian

[Thingy]

Some of us here have a freezer full of QL film plus, in my case, a dozen or so boxes of sheet film.. and polaroid film...

If you're lucky, a secondhand Ebony 45SU will come up for a couple of thousand.

[Julian Elliott]

Thanks for this.

Well, a couple of thousand is beyond my means at the moment

My work lies in various areas, but these two are the most prominent:

landscape: by far my main interest. I love shooting the wide vistas to picking out details with a long lens. I also love seascapes.
Architecture: I love doing cathedral interiors. I just love the architecture found within them.

For my Canon, I have a 17-40, 28-70 and 70-200. I frequently use around 24mm, 50mm and anywhere between 100 and 200mm quite regularly.

Was contemplating a Shen Hao as they are not overly expensive and would at least be a start. As after all, it's just a box that lets in light!

I suppose one of conundrums arises on what movements I am likely to need for what I do.

[Joanna Carter]

Well, a couple of thousand is beyond my means at the moment

You could always consider a Walker Titan SF; If you could stretch to it, it is a very flexible camera for the money and you would be supporting a UK LF manufacturer

My work lies in various areas, but these two are the most prominent:

landscape: by far my main interest. I love shooting the wide vistas to picking out details with a long lens. I also love seascapes.

Well, for this you don't normally need lots of movements…

Architecture: I love doing cathedral interiors. I just love the architecture found within them.

… but here you never know how you might need to twist the camera

For my Canon, I have a 17-40, 28-70 and 70-200. I frequently use around 24mm, 50mm and anywhere between 100 and 200mm quite regularly.

Obviously you're going to have to get used to not having zoom lenses The lengths that you mention equate roughly to 90mm, 180mm and 360-720mm. The first two are considered wide angle and standard, the 360 could be considered a portrait length lens and the 720mm is likely to be a really heavy chunk of glass that could well pull your camera over

For landscape, I tend to use from 72mm, for really wide, distortion free shots; to 400mm for detail shots of middle distance subjects.
For interior, and architectural shots with limited land around them, you may need to go to 58mm or even 47mm, but you need to be aware that, at these lengths, you may have only limited movements.

I suppose one of conundrums arises on what movements I am likely to need for what I do.

Mike Walker makes the SF with a wide range of movements or the XL with more limited movements. Obviously, the simpler the camera, the quicker it is to set up, but you have the compromise of less flexibility.

I would really recommend that you try and get out with someone who already has a range of lenses, so that you can get a grip of how different the focal lengths feel, compared with the digi format before spending money

[Paul Dunning]

Hi Jools,

As you know I'm new to all this so take what I say with a pinch of salt, just thought it was worth sharing my experience.

I knew I wanted something that could handle a super wide lens, I also wanted something with a good range of movements, not for any specific needs but because it made sense to me that if I was going to try LF then I should try it all.

I seriously considered ShenHao TFC45-IIB which looked like it had all the movements I'd ever want for landscape and with a bellows draw of 50-190mm wide angle should be a doddle but your longer focal lengths will be a problem. I was a bit put off by it's limited range of movements, as mentioned above, I wanted to experience the full range of what an LF camera can do.

The TZ45 IIB has more movements but the minimum bellows draw is 75, according to Robert White it will take a 90mm and with a recessed lens board a 75mm, thinking that I'd want to go as wide as I do with my 5DmkII (17mm) I ruled this one out.

The HZX45-IIA looks to be the most versatile of the bunch with a bellows draw of 50-360mm and that's the one I very nearly purchased, but then I got seduced by an Ebony

Paul.

[Julian Elliott]

Oddly enough the HZX45-IIA was what I was looking at. It has the most amount of movements available.

Yes, I would love an Ebony but with things as they currently are, I would have to win the lottery to even contemplate it.

[Paul Dunning]

Yes, I would love an Ebony but with things as they currently are, I would have to win the lottery to even contemplate it.

Jools, don't beat your self up about lack of funds, I did spent way more than I had planned or could honestly justify and the pictures the Ebony takes won't be any better than a ShenHao or any other make IMHO.

Paul.

[Julian Elliott]

Well, the big difference between us is that you are getting a more regular income than me.

I've gone from being in a regular job to trying to get going as a pro freelancer. In this first year, I have taken a 90% drop in what I was earning in a "normal" job. That is very very hard and there are some things I just can't do anymore. This is why you've seen me start to advertise workshops etc to try and boost my income so that I can do the things I want to do.

[Paul Dunning]

Well, the big difference between us is that you are getting a more regular income than me.

I've gone from being in a regular job to trying to get going as a pro freelancer. In this first year, I have taken a 90% drop in what I was earning in a "normal" job. That is very very hard and there are some things I just can't do anymore. This is why you've seen me start to advertise workshops etc to try and boost my income so that I can do the things I want to do.

Understood, and I've got nothing but admiration for what you've done, I often wish I had the courage to try it myself.

Paul.

[Julian Elliott]

Thanks Paul. I do often wonder about my decision. But then I think back to all the cr@p I used to put up with in an office.

Getting back to topic though, I do have some stuff back in the UK that I can stick on Ebay to raise some cash. That'll be a start

[Marizu]

You can get a pre-loved camera and lens from the auction site for £300.
It might be a technical camera like the MPP or it might be a monorail.
This would depend upon your needs.

I own lenses that will cover 5x4 from 65mm-600mm (17mm-200mm equivalent) but the only camera that will take them ALL is a modular monorail.
95% of my photographs (on 5x4) are taken between 90mm and 210mm.
I also know that 80% of my photographs can easily be taken with a standard or long standard lens (50mm-75mm 135 equivalent).

When you only take your Hassy out for the day, which lenses do you pack? I'd be surprised if it's more than two.
This is the way that you need to start thinking if you want to get any practically applicable advice.

It can be quite tricky to focus some of the wide angle lenses (wider than 90?) so I would personally recommend getting the hang of LF on a standard or longer length before getting a wide.

If I use the same lens, nobody can tell whether I shot a given picture on my £150 MPP, a Sinar or my Wista (or an Ebony if I had one), but certain pictures will be easy to take on some of those cameras and very awkward to take on others.

It is totally worth investing in a quality camera like the Walker but if you're cash challenged then you can defer that purchase for a while and still take great pictures.

[Thingy]

The big downside of Walker cameras is that the back is fixed. Rear tilt is essential for architectural photography to correct distortion of perspective. I have a Schneider 58XL lens which is equivalent to a 15mm on a 35mm camera. The movements are very limited but adequate. You would need a bag bellows and unless your camera is designed for wide angle work, you would need to mount the lens in a sunken mount which are a pain to use. A Shen-Hao might therefore represent a good starting camera.

[Marizu]

The big downside of Walker cameras is that the back is fixed. Rear tilt is essential for architectural photography to correct distortion of perspective.

There are different models.
The Titan SF has rear movements.