OK, so I'm probably going to get the 8x10 conversion kit for my P2. What sort of price should I be paying for used fidelity DDS's?
Also, given that much of my shooting will be enviro portraiture, I figure I need to be operating at the normal to wide end of things, am I looking at around a 210mm lens or is that stupid wide on 10x8? (I'm figuring something similar to 90mm on 5x4)
Yeah, numpty questions, but that's in character.
8x10 questions.
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BennehBoy
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8x10 questions.
Ben
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IanG
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210 f8 Super Angulon, but a 240mm f5.5 Symmar would be far better, lighter smaller faster. A 210 Symmar doesn't cover 10x8.
Dark-slides are expensive, the going rate for 5x4 is £7 - £10 from dealers less on ebay.
In the UK it's very much harder to find good 10x8's so expect to pay £25-£50 each. Your best bet is a wanted add on APUG and buy from the US, or Ebay.com - US version log in details are the same as for ebay.co.uk
Just looking on ebay there's one in the UK bidding is over £40 already with 9 bids and 4 days left, while a "Buy it now" one in the US is only $30.
Ian
Dark-slides are expensive, the going rate for 5x4 is £7 - £10 from dealers less on ebay.
In the UK it's very much harder to find good 10x8's so expect to pay £25-£50 each. Your best bet is a wanted add on APUG and buy from the US, or Ebay.com - US version log in details are the same as for ebay.co.uk
Just looking on ebay there's one in the UK bidding is over £40 already with 9 bids and 4 days left, while a "Buy it now" one in the US is only $30.
Ian
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BennehBoy
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I guess it's time for more daft questions...
What coverage is actually required for 10x8 - the 240 symmar is 336mm, does that give much room for movements? The 210 SA is 500mm! (and way out of my price range)
What determines whether a lens can be used on 5x4 or 10x8, is it purely down to coverage? (Seems logical to me) So any lens I get for 10x8 would also be usable on 5x4....
What coverage is actually required for 10x8 - the 240 symmar is 336mm, does that give much room for movements? The 210 SA is 500mm! (and way out of my price range)
What determines whether a lens can be used on 5x4 or 10x8, is it purely down to coverage? (Seems logical to me) So any lens I get for 10x8 would also be usable on 5x4....
Ben
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masch
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Ben,
Yes, image circle at infinity is probably the major differentiator. As long as you can fit a lens for an 8X10 onto a 5x4 camera, it will work just fine.
I think the diagonal of 8x10 is soemthing like 325mm (no calculator and my mental arithmetic is useless!). So there isn't an awful lot of movement left.
Have a look at the Nikkor M 300/9which states 325 as image circle but is generally quite a bit more usable on this. Nikon is quite pessimistic on the image circle. It is also one of the most compat 300mm lenses you are likely to fins (Tessar design).
The Fujinon C 300/8.5 is also quite good for 8x10 I'm told, with 380 or so as an image circle. I think Kerry Thalman has had a nice writeup over those lenses somewhere.
You can try my 300M if you want, should we manage to meet up at some point.
Marc
Yes, image circle at infinity is probably the major differentiator. As long as you can fit a lens for an 8X10 onto a 5x4 camera, it will work just fine.
I think the diagonal of 8x10 is soemthing like 325mm (no calculator and my mental arithmetic is useless!). So there isn't an awful lot of movement left.
Have a look at the Nikkor M 300/9which states 325 as image circle but is generally quite a bit more usable on this. Nikon is quite pessimistic on the image circle. It is also one of the most compat 300mm lenses you are likely to fins (Tessar design).
The Fujinon C 300/8.5 is also quite good for 8x10 I'm told, with 380 or so as an image circle. I think Kerry Thalman has had a nice writeup over those lenses somewhere.
You can try my 300M if you want, should we manage to meet up at some point.
Marc
Real Photographers use METAL cameras.....
...and break their backs in the process...
http://homepage.mac.com/mjjs/Photography/
...and break their backs in the process...
http://homepage.mac.com/mjjs/Photography/
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IanG
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Back to your earlier question, yes any lens you get for your 10x8 should be OK on your 5x4, in theory.
In practice some 10x8 lenses will just be too large or heavy to fit most 5x4 cameras. Also 300mm is usually about the maximum bellows extension of many 5x4's, some are much less.
Typically a 240mm Symmar should easily be usable on both, and many 300mms lenses, particularly the little 300mm Nikon. But don't expect to be able to shoot close-up with a 300mm as you'd have insufficient bellows extension.
Lenses like the 165mm & 210 Super Angulon's would just be far to heavy for a 5x4 camera even if you could fit them.
The little 300mm f9 Nikon is a superb modern Multi-coated lens and is great for landscapes and portraits on a 10x8. While it only has a little room for movements in practice unless your shooting architectural type images or regularly use rise & fall there's ample coverage. It really depends what you are shooting, typically as I shoot landscapes I mostly just use front tilt combined with a little front fall - that retains optimum lens coverage of the film.
Nikon state it covers 10x8 at f9, the amount of coverage improves a lot as it's stopped down but if you want a lens with full coverage then a 300mm Nikon, Symmar, or Sironar is a far better.
Ian
In practice some 10x8 lenses will just be too large or heavy to fit most 5x4 cameras. Also 300mm is usually about the maximum bellows extension of many 5x4's, some are much less.
Typically a 240mm Symmar should easily be usable on both, and many 300mms lenses, particularly the little 300mm Nikon. But don't expect to be able to shoot close-up with a 300mm as you'd have insufficient bellows extension.
Lenses like the 165mm & 210 Super Angulon's would just be far to heavy for a 5x4 camera even if you could fit them.
The little 300mm f9 Nikon is a superb modern Multi-coated lens and is great for landscapes and portraits on a 10x8. While it only has a little room for movements in practice unless your shooting architectural type images or regularly use rise & fall there's ample coverage. It really depends what you are shooting, typically as I shoot landscapes I mostly just use front tilt combined with a little front fall - that retains optimum lens coverage of the film.
Nikon state it covers 10x8 at f9, the amount of coverage improves a lot as it's stopped down but if you want a lens with full coverage then a 300mm Nikon, Symmar, or Sironar is a far better.
Ian
240 G-Claron
I have a 240 G-Claron which is very nice on 8x10 and give lots of room for movements. Stupidly wide would be something like a Nikkor 120 SW which only just covers 8x10 and gives you no room for movements at all...
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IanG
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G-Claron's can be bought in barrels then shutter mounted, but a shutter is expensive.
Schneider don't actually recommend G-Clarons for normal camera use, they are specifically designed for graphics use 5:1 to 1:5 and they state only that they can be used at infinity stopped down past f16.
That doesn't mean they are bad lenses, they just won't be as good as an equivalent Symmar, or similar lens designed for camera use.
This is what Schneider actually say:
"The G-CLARON is a 6-lens, 4-component type symmetrical lens designed for magnifications around 1:1. The normally used magnification range is between 5:1 and 1: 5. With a relative aperture of 1:9, the G-CLARON gives outstanding image quality at a working aperture f/16 for continuous tone originals and at a working aperture f/22 for line and half-tone originals. Maximum use of high performance of the G-CLARON can be obtained if the natural loss of light of the optical system is compensated by suitably illuminating the copy.
The iris setting of the lenses is linear.
Angle of rotation from f/9 to f/11 is 6,25° and from f/11 to f/64 is 12,5° for each stop.
The G-Claron is a lens of symmetrical design with six elements in four groups, optimized for 1:1 reproduction. The normally used range of linear magnifications is 5:1 to 1:5. The G-Claron may also be used for distances up to infinity by stopping down to f/22 or less. For photographic work the G-Claron can be used up to an angle of 64 degrees and is free from mechanical vignetting at f/16 or smaller apertures."
It should be noted that they are only single coated.
Ian
Schneider don't actually recommend G-Clarons for normal camera use, they are specifically designed for graphics use 5:1 to 1:5 and they state only that they can be used at infinity stopped down past f16.
That doesn't mean they are bad lenses, they just won't be as good as an equivalent Symmar, or similar lens designed for camera use.
This is what Schneider actually say:
"The G-CLARON is a 6-lens, 4-component type symmetrical lens designed for magnifications around 1:1. The normally used magnification range is between 5:1 and 1: 5. With a relative aperture of 1:9, the G-CLARON gives outstanding image quality at a working aperture f/16 for continuous tone originals and at a working aperture f/22 for line and half-tone originals. Maximum use of high performance of the G-CLARON can be obtained if the natural loss of light of the optical system is compensated by suitably illuminating the copy.
The iris setting of the lenses is linear.
Angle of rotation from f/9 to f/11 is 6,25° and from f/11 to f/64 is 12,5° for each stop.
The G-Claron is a lens of symmetrical design with six elements in four groups, optimized for 1:1 reproduction. The normally used range of linear magnifications is 5:1 to 1:5. The G-Claron may also be used for distances up to infinity by stopping down to f/22 or less. For photographic work the G-Claron can be used up to an angle of 64 degrees and is free from mechanical vignetting at f/16 or smaller apertures."
It should be noted that they are only single coated.
Ian