Fuji Hunt E6 - 3 bath - 3 batches?

[timparkin]

"The capacity is a only indicative and can very greatly, depending on working conditions,storage,type and brand of film,etc...." witch sound to me like ''We are short staffed, its recession, this is what we think and if you want to do more tests, do it in your own time with your own money'' - only joking of course.

[Joanna Carter]

That's the thing, it only happens with the First Dev, the rest of the chemicals don't gain or loose, or if they do is unnoticeable.

That's what I suspected, the first liquid to hit the emulsion gets absorbed to some extent as the emulsion swells. If it were permitted, a prewash might solve the problem but, of course, it would also serve to dilute the action of the first developer.

The manual also says: "The capacity is a only indicative and can very greatly, depending on working conditions,storage,type and brand of film,etc...."

Which usually means that they are covering their backsides in case you get less coverage due to external circumstances. I rather doubt they intended it to mean that you could get more and, as Tim has found, the 11th and 12th sheet does seem to make a difference to the results of the third batch.

Tim, surely using 300ml for two batches of six or three batches of four isn't going to break the bank, is it? After all, it's twice the value of the single shot process I have to use with the ATL1500.

[gary mulder]

Here in holland film cost roughly ten times as much as the chemicals. Wy risk your film ? I develop 10 sheets 4 X 5 in a 3010 with 250 ml and lose the chem.

[Bogdan_B]

That's what I suspected, the first liquid to hit the emulsion gets absorbed to some extent as the emulsion swells. If it were permitted, a prewash might solve the problem but, of course, it would also serve to dilute the action of the first developer.

If that's the case, with 6 sheets(instead of 4) loaded in the reel the first dev should be even lower than 20ml after the first batch.
Tim, did you notice any difference in the missing quatity when you processed 6 sheets?

[dave_whatever]

Slight tangent alert: out of interest has anyone done their own 120 film? - how does that work out vis a vis the number of rolls you can get done from a 5ltr E6 kit, the number you can develop in one sitting etc? Would I be right in guessing that loading it in the drums is harder than with sheet film? cheers.

[Joanna Carter]

Slight tangent alert: out of interest has anyone done their own 120 film? - how does that work out vis a vis the number of rolls you can get done from a 5ltr E6 kit, the number you can develop in one sitting etc? Would I be right in guessing that loading it in the drums is harder than with sheet film?

The Fuji data sheet indicates that 5ltrs should process 50 rolls of 120 film (100ml per film); thus in a 2553 drum, with three reels, each holding two rolls of film, and using 640ml of solution, you should be able to process seven batches of six rolls (42); leaving enough solution for two batches of two rolls in a 2523 drum (another 4), or use up the 520ml remaining with the next 5ltr pack.

Of course, if you only want to use the smaller drum for less than six films per batch, at 270ml per batch of two films, you would only get 36 films processed out of the same chemistry. You might squeeze another 4 films if reducing the volume to 250ml still covers the film.

So, for single shot development, 120 film is a lot more economical on chemistry, being able to process 46 films (in the larger drum, at recommended volumes) out of a possible 50; compared with 4x5 film, of which you can only process around 108 sheets out of a possible 200.

From my experience, loading 120 film into the 2502 Duo reels is a lot easier than loading 4x5 sheets into the 2509n.

[Bogdan_B]

Slight tangent alert: out of interest has anyone done their own 120 film? - how does that work out vis a vis the number of rolls you can get done from a 5ltr E6 kit, the number you can develop in one sitting etc? Would I be right in guessing that loading it in the drums is harder than with sheet film? cheers.

That's somethig I have planned to try in the next couple of days. Using a 2523 drum with a 2502 reel and using the 5ltr kit before oxidizing, based on a 2 batches/measurement, it should be enough for 80 rolls of 120 film. Its actually a lot easier to load 120 film in the 2502 reel than loading sheet film in the 2509n.

[Joanna Carter]

Using a 2523 drum with a 2502 reel and using the 5ltr kit before oxidizing, based on a 2 batches/measurement, it should be enough for 80 rolls of 120 film. Its actually a lot easier to load 120 film in the 2502 reel than loading sheet film in the 2509n.

I really think you would be pushing it to get 80 films out of 5ltrs when Fuji only recommend 50. The 2502 reel takes two films at a time and requires 270ml to cover the film; that is only 70ml over the recommended chemistry for two films and the films fill the reel right up to the centre core.

[gary mulder]

Not the amount of film will be the limiting factor but the developer air contact in a rotary processor . If you are using a Rack & Tank processor, under optimal circumstances you can get 1 100 asa film 8 X 10 developed using 60 ml replenishment. But in that case I advise to use separate bleach & fixer trying to do that. And a Replenisher chemistry. But who has that amount of throughput these days ? 100 or more film/week.

[Bogdan_B]

I really think you would be pushing it to get 80 films out of 5ltrs when Fuji only recommend 50. The 2502 reel takes two films at a time and requires 270ml to cover the film; that is only 70ml over the recommended chemistry for two films and the films fill the reel right up to the centre core.

Joanna might be right on this one. I based my calculation on using 250ml of chemistry, but the 2502 looks a lot busier with 2 rolls of 120 than the 2509n, even when is loaded with 6 sheets of film, so to be on the safe side, using the recomended 270ml is probably the right choice.

[Joanna Carter]

I based my calculation on using 250ml of chemistry, but the 2502 looks a lot busier with 2 rolls of 120 than the 2509n, even when is loaded with 6 sheets of film, so to be on the safe side, using the recomended 270ml is probably the right choice.

Using 250ml of chemistry you would still only be able to process 40 films (20 batches of two films), not 80 films.

Don't forget that one 120 film is the equivalent in area of four 4x5 sheets, so with two rolls in a tank, you have the equivalent of eight sheets of 4x5. In other words, running one batch of two 120 films on the same reel is the same as two batches of four 4x5 films in a 2509n.

[dave_whatever]

Cheers for all this (albeit slightly conflicting... ) 120 info, its all good food for thought. I realise I'm probably hijacking this thread slightly, but how long do these 5ltr kits last for once opened - as I understand the shelf life isn't indefinite. As a yorkshireman I hate to see things go past the sell by date and thrown away.

[Bogdan_B]

Cheers for all this (albeit slightly conflicting... ) 120 info, its all good food for thought. I realise I'm probably hijacking this thread slightly, but how long do these 5ltr kits last for once opened - as I understand the shelf life isn't indefinite. As a yorkshireman I hate to see things go past the sell by date and thrown away.

The manual says: ''Opened Concentrates will last 3 month if kept in closed air tight bottles with a minimum of air space''.
Joanna mentioned something about an anti-oxidant gas to top up the bottles, but i don't know where to buy the gas from, i hope she might be able to help us with that. Funny enough, today, i was talking to a mate of mine about this problem and he said that using marbles can help with getting rid of the air space. Another solution is to split the chems into smaller storage bottles.

[Joanna Carter]

Joanna mentioned something about an anti-oxidant gas to top up the bottles, but i don't know where to buy the gas from

Firstcall Photographic do the Tetenal gas, I think it's called Protectan.

i was talking to a mate of mine about this problem and he said that using marbles can help with getting rid of the air space. Another solution is to split the chems into smaller storage bottles.

True; anything that excludes air should work.

[gary mulder]

Cheers for all this (albeit slightly conflicting... ) 120 info, its all good food for thought. I realise I'm probably hijacking this thread slightly, but how long do these 5ltr kits last for once opened - as I understand the shelf life isn't indefinite. As a yorkshireman I hate to see things go past the sell by date and thrown away.

After opening a kit I distribute it in glass bottles containing 300ml each. With some argon on top. (welding supply). That leaves me with ± 50ml for the 1e run. I store them in the basement at 15 celsius max. It takes me about one year to use them up without problem.