New to LF: Need Advice on a Starter Kit

[lostlandsuk]

I guess it all depends on weight and bulk, Yes the Mamiya is a lovely camera and incredibly portable, but then we're getting into the realms of suggesting Fuji 6x7s or even Rolleis. The Arca 6x9 is pretty damn small and not too bulky . . and you could get away with just a rollfilm holder and 120 film and a really light tripod. All depends whether you want to use movements or not, in which case the mamiya et al would fit the bill.
The non-folding Ebony's are incredible cameras - definitely the epitomy of the camera makers art - but oh man, the price of them!
And Thingy, as for Stroebel, yes I agree, an incredibly in-depth technical manual, and extremely useful from that point of view, but as dry as the desert (to me anyway) - a good dipping book. Steves' however, I found to be eminently readable right the way through.
Phil

[dave_whatever]

I have also been considering a mamiya 7, however the dept of field is an issue as I want to be able to go from a narrow depth of field for environmental portrait to a wide
one for urban landscape images...

If you need big depth of field for deep front-to-back shots then forget about a fixed (non-tilting) 6x7 camera. From what I can tell, Mamiya 7 lenses only stop down to f/22, which is equivalent to using a 35mm camera at f/11. Plus then the lenses are operating at normal diffraction limts like any other lens, so you'll not even be getting the ultra sharpness that these lenses deliver at middle apertures (which you're paying a hefty cash premium for).

Having said this, I know some people do use mamiya 7s for deep landscape shots but I frankly I don't know how they manage it. I stuggled to get enough DOF even with a 45mm lens on 645 format at f/22.

[Joanna Carter]

Having said this, I know some people do use mamiya 7s for deep landscape shots but I frankly I don't know how they manage it. I stuggled to get enough DOF even with a 45mm lens on 645 format at f/22.

I have a Mamiya 7II with the 80mm lens and have to say that I have been completely gobsmacked by the available depth of field it can achieve. No, it's not as sharp at the extremes as you would get out of an LF camera, but that could be more down to the relative film size. It is still a remarkable camera for its size and price; I use it as my "snapper" camera with Ilford Delta 400 film. I love the format because it so close to 4x5 proportions and therefore is useful as a preview camera.

[dave_whatever]

You see I find that totally bizarre, because I know on my 80mm lens on 645 I can only get say from infinity to not even as close as 5meters properly sharp at f/22. With hyperfocal set I might be able to get down to 3 or 4 meters but then infinity won't be sharp (obvious with only a 4x loup). For my purposes this is basically unusable for near-far landscape shots.



This isn't just me either, A mate of mine also shoots 645 and ended up getting a russian tilt lens because it was ultimately limiting. I moved to 4x5/6x7 on a field camera for the same reason.

[Joanna Carter]

You see I find that totally bizarre, because I know on my 80mm lens on 645 I can only get say from infinity to not even as close as 5meters properly sharp at f/22. With hyperfocal set I might be able to get down to 3 or 4 meters but then infinity won't be sharp (obvious with only a 4x loup). For my purposes this is basically unusable for near-far landscape shots.

This isn't just me either, A mate of mine also shoots 645 and ended up getting a russian tilt lens because it was ultimately limiting. I moved to 4x5/6x7 on a field camera for the same reason.

I would agree that, for the kind of work you are wanting to do, it is not optimal but, without movements, the laws of physics are fairly solidly against any significant improvement on the situation. Nevertheless, using the DOF scale on the Mamiya 7II 80mm lens, it tells me that I can get from 2.5mtrs to infinity at f/22, although, from experience with Mamiya DOF markings, I would tend to only use the range at f/16, which gives me from 3mtrs to infinity - Mamiya can be a bit optimistic with their scales.

It is for this kind of reason that I choose which camera I use for a particular style of photography - the Ebony for "proper" photography, the Mamiya 7II for "snapping" and the Mamiya RZ67 for when I want a brick of a camera that won't be blown around in the breeze as easily as the Ebony will. But, if I use the fixed geometry cameras, I have to accept their limitations and not expect to be able to produce immaculate 40" x 32" prints from a 6cm x 7cm negative.

[dave_whatever]

I think all manufacturers are optimistic with DOF scales, not just mamiya. Probably because they're generally set for acceptable sharpness when viewing a print from a distance equal to the diagonal of the print (i.e. looking at an 8x10" from a foot away), and most picky photographers like to get their noses a bit closer.

Sounds like the DOF scale on your 80mm is pretty close if not identical to the one on my 645 80mm. I found that even when slavishly following the old drill of using the DOF marks for an aperture one larger than the one you're shooting at and focussing at hyperfocal distance you still don't get a sharp looking infinity because of the way the brain interprets unsharpness in context.

But I know what you mean about handy fixed rollfilm cameras being useful in the right setting - this is why so far I've not got rid of my 645 system even though I'm basically not shooting any landscape with it (the primary reason I initially bought it), because there's a lot you can do with them, pretty versatile.